Battery dead? This is for all you naysayers...

[FoxKat]

I'm sorry but could you put that in more layman terms? From what I understood you recommend plugging the phone in when it is in 25-75% battery, is this correct?

I apologize for the confusion. It appears that charging from near empty to 100% every time stresses the battery causing it to lose charging capacity in a shorter time than if charged partially as needed, so the point was to charge more frequently even if you aren't charging it to full. The example is if you use it till your battery level is 25%, go ahead and plug in for a charge, even if you don't have time to let it charge fully. If it charges to 75%, that equals a 50% charge increase, and in the chart, if you maintained that type of charging routine it would extend your overall battery life.

You would get the same results if you charge to 100%, and then use it to typically about 50% before charging again. The charts evidence suggests that long charging cycles (like from 15% to 100% as a routine), actually shortens useable battery life.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[Xproplayer]

I apologize for the confusion. It appears that charging from near empty to 100% every time stresses the battery causing it to lose charging capacity in a shorter time than if charged partially as needed, so the point was to charge more frequently even if you aren't charging it to full. The example is if you use it till your battery level is 25%, go ahead and plug in for a charge, even if you don't have time to let it charge fully. If it charges to 75%, that equals a 50% charge increase, and in the chart, if you maintained that type of charging routine it would extend your overall battery life.

You would get the same results if you charge to 100%, and then use it to typically about 50% before charging again. The charts evidence suggests that long charging cycles (like from 15% to 100% as a routine), actually shortens useable battery life.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

What about 25% to 100%?

 

[FoxKat]

What about 25% to 100%?

That would be fine as well. Please don't misunderstand, charging fully from any level is safe, just as charging partially from any level is. It's just a characteristic of this type of battery that it prefers multiple shorter charging cycles rather than one long cycle as a routine. In other words don't be concerned about doing damage to the battery by plugging in multiple times in any day. Topping off the battery is fine.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[huskur]

You make an very interesting point about being "politically correct for the greater good".

So in your opinion, based on observational data, a phone manufacturer has broken one of the cardinal rules of electrical engineering. You are now going to proceed by giving advice to the masses to help them maintain the "status quo" instead of letting the phone maker pay for the warranty issue their bad design created, which would in turn get them to fix the software and firmware properly since that is cheaper than dealing with warranty claims.

That is a very interesting stance to take.

Sorry i got you into the hornets nest brother. (did I tell everyone that Skull One was very informative?) That is why I asked him......great information for the masses here to contemplate. Some of us are on one side of the fence or the other. (I though prefer to hang out at the top)

 

[bruben7886]

Sorry i got you into the hornets nest brother. (did I tell everyone that Skull One was very informative?) That is why I asked him......great information for the masses here to contemplate. Some of us are on one side of the fence or the other. (I though prefer to hang out at the top)

Great info due to these 2 gentlemen "getting into it". Great discussion. Nothing to apologize for imho.
Thanks FoxKat and Skull! Learned a lot. That's why we come to these forums

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

 

[Trash Can]

Great info due to these 2 gentlemen "getting into it". Great discussion. Nothing to apologize for imho.
Thanks FoxKat and Skull! Learned a lot. That's why we come to these forums

Sent from my DROID RAZR using DroidForums

Exactly!!

 

[jp233]

Thanks for the battery info. I had figured that discharging so far and fully charging every night was not a good thing for these Lion-poly batteries.

Anyone have any info on charging rate? The charger that came with the Razr is 750 mA, but I have older chargers from my other devices that range from 500-1000 ?

I would assume the 500 is safe to use for longer periods of time, in my case during most work days when it's on Airplane mode anyways. All the 900-1000 chargers are car chargers that would be used for quicker charges at random times (one of them is a Verizon charger from a BB and the rest are fleabay specials for BB or older LG phones).

edit: nevermind -- found other posts and other places, sure it may be a warranty "violation" but 5V and the neighborhood of 750mA is probably just fine. OMG I want to mod in a Maxx battery though.

 

[FoxKat]

Thanks for the battery info. I had figured that discharging so far and fully charging every night was not a good thing for these Lion-poly batteries.

Anyone have any info on charging rate? The charger that came with the Razr is 750 mAh, but I have older chargers from my other devices that range from 500-1000 ?

I would assume the 500 is safe to use for longer periods of time, in my case during most work days when it's on Airplane mode anyways. All the 900-1000 chargers are car chargers that would be used for quicker charges at random times (one of them is a Verizon charger from a BB and the rest are fleabay specials).

Slow charging is ALWAYS better than rapid charging, however depending on how fast you charge will determine if there will be any residual negative effect. LIPO batteries perform at their best when charged a rate which doesn't raise the temperature of the battery.

Below is an excerpt from BatteryUniversity.com, which gives forth some basic guidelines. I'll explain after each bullet point in RED.

[h=2]Simple Guidelines to Prolong Lithium-ion Batteries[/h]

• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Do not discharge Li-ion too low; charge more often.[/FONT]
  • This is in direct contrast to what some have expressed as the way to "calibrate" the battery to the charger. I read this pretty clearly...avoid full discharges under all circumstances. There's a good reason why the phone tells you to plug in at 15%, so why argue with it?
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A random or partial charge is fine. Li-ion does not need a full charge.[/FONT]
  • Again, pretty clear here. Multiple charging cycles even through the day will not hurt the battery, although it is the cause for the need to "train" the charger to the actual capacity on an infrequent basis (charging to 100% with power off, drain to 15%, repeat charge to 100% with power off to set low and high flags).
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Limit the time the battery resides at 4.20/cell (full charge), especially if warm.[/FONT]
  • This is done for you. The charger recognizes when the battery has reached maximum capacity and shuts down the charging circuitry, and then monitors the voltages to see if and when it may need a topping off again. However, if the battery seems to get hot for some unknown reason, disconnect and allow to cool, then plug back in (preferrably at this point it would be with power off).
    
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Moderate the charge current to between 0.5C and 0.8C for cobalt-based lithium-ion [our batteries]. Avoid ultra-fast charging and discharging.[/FONT]
  • Here is the perfect information to dispute using non-Motorola chargers, and specifically to avoid high current chargers. The numbers 0.5C and 0.8C represent the percentage of capacity of the battery, so in the 0.5C example for a battery that is rated at 1,780mAh, they are targeting a charge rate of 890mAh on the bottom end (half capacity), and 1,424mAh on the top end (8/10 capacity), however this rate is highly frowned upon for battery longevity.
    
    Also note: This is NOT where Motorola wants you to be. Their wall charger puts out a maximum of 750mAh and for good reason, to reduce stress on the battery and extend its lifespan so the battery lasts for the targeted life of the phone. Remember, this is supposed to be a non-removable battery, right? So if that's the case, the manufacturer wants it to last the projected 2 years of the targeted life of the phone. Ironically, their rapid charger for the car ALSO puts out 750mAh as well, but the difference may be in actual output versus maximum output, so YRMV.
  • Interestingly enough, a post to Amazon.com mentioned they used the Motorola Car Rapid Charger on their phone while plugged into the dock and it didn't seem to charge quickly at all, but when he moved the phone to a direct connection to the charger - bypassing the dock, he reported "At 8:00 AM the phone was at 20%, 8:20 AM 40%, 9:00 AM 70% and 10:00 AM 100%. ", so it appears it does charge faster.
    
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If the charger allows, lower the charge voltage limit to prolong battery life.[/FONT]
  • Again, Motorola has taken care of this for you. No need to be concerned as long as you stay with an approved charger. Otherwise, you are at risk for consequences of your own actions.
    
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keep the battery cool. Move it away from heat-generating environments. Avoid hot cars and windowsills.[/FONT]
  • 'Nuff said.
    
• [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] High heat and full state-of-charge, not cycling, cause short battery life.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Heat issue covered above. So, charge and use, rather than charge and store. If you do need to store the phone for any extended period of time (greater than 1 week), drain to 40% before turning off and leaving in that state. Cycling as it is described is charging and using in shorter bursts rather than full-blown charge and drain (as mentioned above), so if you want...go ahead and drain to 0%, but don't come crying back with a battery that no longer lasts as long as mine does in a few months (not to mention all the other potential problems it can cause).[/FONT]

 

[valglbgl]

FoxKat, thank you for sharing all your battery knowledge! It is a big help. So sorry you have not been feeling well.

As for the Maxx battery, I am not sure if I am getting the best out of my battery. Seems that I am getting about 10 - 12 hours out of it.:biggrin: Much more than I ever got from my DX, but maybe I expected more from this phone. So far I am thrilled with the phone, have had a few hiccups with it, like garbled phone calls and weird reception issues, but I am hoping maybe it was something in the air today! Any suggested changes would be greatly appreciated.

Valglbgl

 

[thaDroidz]

Foxkat definitely needs a battery section listed under the razor's section here on DF... maybe then he could just paste a link to his little corner of df instead of typing a novel each time...

----posted maxx'ed out----

 

[FoxKat]

FoxKat, thank you for sharing all your battery knowledge! It is a big help. So sorry you have not been feeling well.

As for the Maxx battery, I am not sure if I am getting the best out of my battery. Seems that I am getting about 10 - 12 hours out of it.:biggrin: Much more than I ever got from my DX, but maybe I expected more from this phone. So far I am thrilled with the phone, have had a few hiccups with it, like garbled phone calls and weird reception issues, but I am hoping maybe it was something in the air today! Any suggested changes would be greatly appreciated.

Valglbgl

Well, first thank you for the well wishes. Actually it's my wife who is under the weather. She is being treated for Breast Cancer, post operation, and is going through Chemotherapy. I am not suffering in any sense of the word, but I am needless to say providing support for her every step of the way. This is what has pulled me away from time to time. I want no sympathy, all of the energy is being directed at her for the greatest possible chance of successful treatment.

As for the hours you are getting, it has a lot to do with your usage pattern. 10-12 hours for someone who is constantly using the phone, with the screen on constantly, and doing things such as surfing on 4G, playing online games, streaming audio/video, etc. would be pretty good. If all you are doing is checking email a few times throughout the day, checking Facebook, maybe surfing a bit here and there, making/receiving a few phone calls, etc., then I'd be concerned.

Also, how much of a charge are you starting the day with, are you charging with power on virtually always, have you ever trained the charging system to the battery's capacity by charging to 100% with power off, using to 15% (low battery), and then charging again to 100% with power off, and a what % are you considering it needing a charge when the day is done?

 

[SallyC]

Well, first thank you for the well wishes. Actually it's my wife who is under the weather. She is being treated for Breast Cancer, post operation, and is going through Chemotherapy. I am not suffering in any sense of the word, but I am needless to say providing support for her every step of the way. This is what has pulled me away from time to time. I want no sympathy, all of the energy is being directed at her for the greatest possible chance of successful treatment.

Sorry to hear this - you and your wife will both be in our prayers with much positive energy and thoughts.

 

[justin82]

Foxkat definitely needs a battery section listed under the razor's section here on DF... maybe then he could just paste a link to his little corner of df instead of typing a novel each time...

----posted maxx'ed out----

I have tried to get this going and failed

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-polls/203134-battery-sub-forum.html

 

[FoxKat]

Sorry to hear this - you and your wife will both be in our prayers with much positive energy and thoughts.

Sally, you are wonderful and I appreciate your sincere concern and well wishes. :biggrin: Fortunately it was caught early, and had only metastacized to the first lymph node. The Doctor is confident he got it all with clear margins, but some these cells can still be floating around her body hence the need for Chemotherapy.

 

[FoxKat]

I have tried to get this going and failed

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-polls/203134-battery-sub-forum.html

Justin, don't feel as though you have failed. Any attention you drew to the subject is good and who knows what will come in the future. Perhaps there will be a thread and you'll have been the impetus for it.

Thanks for your support either way.