Apple steals your music... seriously.

Discussion in 'Off Topic Forum' started by PereDroid, May 6, 2016.

  1. PereDroid

    PereDroid DF News Team Reporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,368
    Likes Received:
    3,217
    Trophy Points:
    1,563
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Ratings:
    +3,780
    Current Phone Model:
    Moto Turbo 2
    The writer sums it up better then I probably could:

    "When giving the above warning, however, even in my most Orwellian paranoia I never could have dreamed that the content holders, like Apple, would also reach into your computer and take away what you already owned. If Taxi Driver is on Netflix, Netflix doesn’t come to your house and steal your Taxi Driver DVD. But that’s where we’re headed. When it comes to music, Apple is already there..."

    Apple Stole My Music. No, Seriously.

    Wrong forum for this. Can someone move it to maybe USER NEWS or OFF TOPIC?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. mountainbikermark

    mountainbikermark Super Moderator
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    1,563
    Ratings:
    +4,348
    Moved to Off Topic area.

    Support Our Troops!!!
    Beast Mode 4
    <><
     
  3. thunderbolt_nick

    thunderbolt_nick Thunderbolt Rescue Squad
    Rescue Squad

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    603
    Trophy Points:
    1,268
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings:
    +724
    Current Phone Model:
    Nexus 6P
    Twitter:
    @nickburress2k2
    Bloggers...they love to think they know how everything works and think their rants mean actual fact. It's why I despise them. Let me start from the top. I do not use the Apple Music service myself for various other reasons, but when I used it for the 3-month trial let me tell you...this blogger is CONFUSED, not providing any insight to the 'devil' that is Apple (despite their other practices I don't agree with).

    1) Amber...really? Using an Apple Employee's name to try and justify something that was actually told to them when they first signed up for the service. I'll get to this later on. I hate when customers do this annoying crap. "Well so and so said this and that and they work for you." Yes...and? We are not robots. This one particular employee if the claims of this blogger are to be believed did not do their job properly by suggesting such a ridiculous claim.

    2) An Apple employee would never, EVER tell you not to use a service or the reason to never use a service. They make suggestions based on use. I guarantee this Amber told the customer that if they did not want personal music going to the cloud then to not use the Apple service. Not because it 'deletes remotely' random files.

    3) If you relied on forums before going to Apple themselves and then blaming Apple for said forums...then the Internet is clearly not for you. Just my thoughts on that

    4) "iCloud Music Library is turned on automatically when you set up your Apple Music Subscription…When your Apple Music Subscription term ends, you will lose access to any songs stored in your iCloud Music Library."

    Duh...that's how the service WORKS! If you seriously thought it worked any other way then you need to take a class on Cloud Services. Or ya know...just READ. By the way, that statement is incorrect. You actually get a grace period to redownload your music after it has expired. So, again, this person clearly didn't talk to an Apple Rep or just misunderstood (which is what I'm getting as the theme of this terrible rant against Apple).

    5) I noticed something NOT mentioned in this blog...Where was the original/created music located? What folder? Guess what...I guarantee his dumb self put it in the iTunes music folder. Ya wanna know what happens when you do? Oh yeah. WHAT YOU'RE CoMPLAINING ABOUT! Apple Music and iTunes (or any music application I'm aware of) is not able to determine between your personally-made MP3s or the songs you are getting via Apple Music...so it will pull all of them. So, like Amber said, that is the design of the application and any other cloud application as far as I'm aware.

    6) Now...let me go on my own rant. CLOUD. The service is great, but it confuses the feeble-minded sometimes. Cloud works by TAKING your files and putting them on a company's servers. There are certain companies (like Google) who can actually make those files available for offline use. Music is a fickle mistress though because copyright and licensing is involved. So...if you want to blame someone, blame the music industry. Licensing requires Apple to have to do it this way when it comes to streaming. With the deals they struck, it requires the 'match' process. So, blogger does have a point on that. It is annoying and stupid, especially with CDs I own.

    7) For about ten years, I’ve been warning people, “hang onto your media. One day, you won’t buy a movie. You’ll buy the right to watch a movie, and that movie will be served to you. If the companies serving the movie don’t want you to see it, or they want to change something, they will have the power to do so. They can alter history, and they can make you keep paying for things that you formerly could have bought. Information will be a utility rather than a possession. Even information that you yourself have created will require unending, recurring payments just to access.”

    I literally found out what kind of person this blogger really is after this statement. He's one of those. And by those I mean a hoarder. Basically, this ideology is 'if I buy something I need something tangible that I own or else it is worthless.' I dealt with these kind of idiots at the movie theater all the time. They think since they didn't come out with anything physical that the experience was worthless and it makes them easy to demand refunds because the movie was poor or whatever. When you go to a movie theater and watch a movie, do you bring home the movie reel with you? When you go to an amusement park do you take the ride with you? No. It's about the EXPERIENCE. So yes, that is where the world is headed and it's been like that well before this silly '10-year warning' bs. If you don't like that, I'll tell you exactly what my Sergeant Major Grandpa used to tell me: tough.

    In conclusion, there are so many other things wrong with Apple Music and other services that I won't get into here and because of ignorance this blogger wanted to create some click-baity bogus blog it overlooks those.
     
    #3 thunderbolt_nick, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
    • Like Like x 3
  4. mountainbikermark

    mountainbikermark Super Moderator
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    1,563
    Ratings:
    +4,348
    But tell us how you really feel :)
    I don't pay much attention to or read much of the blogosphere because to me a blog is an editorial in a newspaper. Most links and quotes in a blog are for slanting purposes, either pro or anti, and are more times than not taken out of context, like the supposed "news analysts" feeding out the company line.
    To me most blogs are someone's attempt at their 15 minutes of fame, looking for like minded readers only in hopes of stretching out the 15 minutes.


    Support Our Troops!!!
    Beast Mode 4
    <><
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. thunderbolt_nick

    thunderbolt_nick Thunderbolt Rescue Squad
    Rescue Squad

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    603
    Trophy Points:
    1,268
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings:
    +724
    Current Phone Model:
    Nexus 6P
    Twitter:
    @nickburress2k2
    Hehe. :D

    That's for true. Bloggers have been the spread of pseudoscience and misinformation as far as I can remember. The two things I can't stand on the Internet...bloggers and youtubers

    EDIT: Here's the real story: No, Apple Music doesn't delete your files
     
    #5 thunderbolt_nick, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
  6. FoxKat

    FoxKat Premium Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    14,806
    Likes Received:
    4,751
    Trophy Points:
    838
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ratings:
    +5,290
    Current Phone Model:
    Droid Turbo 2 & Galaxy S7
    First let me say that I agree with virtually everything you've said here, including the full post copied, but which in my post I have truncated simply for space. What I didn't see touched upon though, is the issue of original music that is basically Irreplaceable.

    If this blogger did in fact have original music that he created himself, and that was saved in wave form (.WAV file format, a pure digital copy at a high sampling rate), and therefore was then absconded by Apple via their terms of agreement and Licensing with the music industry, he does have a legitimate gripe. Did he put the files in a place that would make them immediately accessible to Apple's iTunes, and inadvertently cause the problem himself? Well that's to be debated.

    It sounds to me like iTunes is designed to scan your hard drive and find all music, then giving you the option at that point or prior to with an opt-in, to port that music over to the iTunes Cloud. If that is true, unless you're careful about it and not paying much attention to this process, you could fall victim to the same type of misappropriation of your own files that he did. Furthermore, now that those WAV files have been reduced to a lossy compression MP3 file, he has lost private tangible property. The tangible property is of course the lossless file, or basically a pure digital copy of the original creation.

    Now he does go on to say that he was able to recover all of that data from a backup that he made himself, so his rant is really not all that that valuable except to make aware others who may not have backups such that they won't fall victim to the same process.

    Personally, I have over 4000 CDs, yes the actual plastic discs with the digital information stored on them and for which I've paid my hard earned money to have the right to listen to anytime, as often, and wherever I chose and for as long into the future as I am able to safely store them in a usable fashion. Considering they are said have a 100 Year shelf life, that's effectively for the rest of my life and even perhaps for the rest of the life of my offspring. The CDs are stored in an archive closet. Am I a hoarder or a collector? I suppose that's up for debate as well.

    I've taken the time to rip every single one of those CDs with the most accurate ripping tool available on the market, and then compressed the ripped files using FLAC, which is a lossless compression tool. The purpose for compressing was to minimize hard drive space using effectively about a 50% compression ratio. This is in contrast to an MP3 file which is closer to about a 10% ratio, meaning it tosses to the curb about 40% of the original data in the compression process, hence the term lossy compression. The CDs are both stored on physical hard drives, a NAS as well as on Google Drives (the cloud), so I can listen to them anywhere with Google Play Music.

    So the choice of a lossless compression was to enable me to uncompress back to the original wav files if and when I should decide to do so, and once again have a pure digital copy of the original CD. That choice was also so that I could keep the CDs in their pristine condition and not risk damaging them via scratch or break, to ensure that they will be around in the future should I need to refer back to them.

    Now of course, I still have all the original CDs so in the event that I should lose the digital copies of those CDs, I could still go back and rerip them however of course it would require extensive time and energy and effort as it did the first time around. So again, even though I have the originals, if I should lose the digital copies through a process like the one the Blogger describes I would have lost all of the time energy and effort that I put forth to rip them the first time meaning I would have been subject to a loss of at least one thing - an unrecoverable...time.

    In a nutshell, we all have to be aware of our surroundings and protect ourselves from what we may not fully understand and from what contractual agreements we make ourselves subject to. This is a case of buyer beware gone wrong. Isn't the responsibility of the service provider to make us completely aware and make sure that we can make an intelligent decision that won't subject us to hurting ourselves? Well I would argue that yes it is the responsibility of Apple to make it clear to the consumer just what rights they may be giving up should they agree to the terms of this agreement. And I'm sure that the attorneys carefully worded the information in the disclosures such that they could be manipulated or interpreted to mean just about anything they need them to mean in order to protect Apple. They could have instead made it very blatantly clear.

    I.e. "We will be deleting your data from your hard drive, and if that data is either original, one-of-a-kind, or of an unrecoverable nature, in other words you don't have backups, and if that data is stored in pure, uncompressed and lossless formats such as WAV, it will be permanently destroyed and converted to a lossy lossy format such as MP3 or AAC. Be sure to create a full backup of all data that you wish not to lose permanently. Proceed at your own risk."

    The terms of agreement don't make it that clear and my argument would be that's a failure of their responsibility.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
     
    #6 FoxKat, May 6, 2016
    Last edited: May 6, 2016
  7. thunderbolt_nick

    thunderbolt_nick Thunderbolt Rescue Squad
    Rescue Squad

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    603
    Trophy Points:
    1,268
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings:
    +724
    Current Phone Model:
    Nexus 6P
    Twitter:
    @nickburress2k2
    No. ITunes does scan but then imports every file (WAV or otherwise) into the iTunes Media folder, the originals (wherever they are) are untouched. If Apple Music (aka a cloud/matching service) is turned on, it only reads that folder and uploads that specific folder. The originals are still on the hard drive.

    Apple could make it blatantly clear. You run into the whole 'baseball bat may cause injury' argument though. Then it might turn into a slippery slope.

    Again, so many other things that we could be yelling at Apple about. This is really just misunderstanding and blogger ranting

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. FoxKat

    FoxKat Premium Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    14,806
    Likes Received:
    4,751
    Trophy Points:
    838
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ratings:
    +5,290
    Current Phone Model:
    Droid Turbo 2 & Galaxy S7
    Funny how as I was responding to your original message you found that updated response to the Blogger. I read it after I posted and so I'm somewhat confused and maybe not totally convinced that Apple doesn't in fact wipe files from your computer. I know that iTunes, being an Apple product is going to be very tight fisted with the way they operate. I've tried iTunes and I was both disappointed and overwhelmed at how it operated. Just like the iPhone, I didn't feel like I was at the Helm of my own ship with the wheel in my hands, but was more like a passenger/owner sitting behind the hired captain.

    Perhaps this was a misunderstanding on the blogger's part of how the system operated and perhaps the blogger did inadvertently somehow delete his own files, but I suspect not. Also the response mentions Mac computers, but does not mention Windows based PCS. I do believe that Apple has complete control and understanding with Macs and that perhaps they don't delete the files on a Macintosh computer, however I do believe there's a possibility that through flawed programming or lack of complete understanding of the Windows operating system they may inadvertently do so on a Windows PC.

    The takeaway from this for me, is backup, backup, backup!

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
     
  9. thunderbolt_nick

    thunderbolt_nick Thunderbolt Rescue Squad
    Rescue Squad

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    603
    Trophy Points:
    1,268
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Ratings:
    +724
    Current Phone Model:
    Nexus 6P
    Twitter:
    @nickburress2k2
    Of course. That is the risk with any piece of software. I do not like iTunes in the least. So much convoluted bologna that I can't even remotely use it for music. I'm a casual music listener and I just couldn't bear it. Google Music all the way.

    Windows does work the same way. iTunes can scan and import...that's about it. You are right, it might inadvertently delete files if not programmed correctly or a flaw in the system, a bug, etc., but that is not how iTunes was designed as the blogger is implying. Heck, stuff like that can sometimes even happen on Macs too. Still...like you said, back it up because like you say...not everything works perfectly.
     
  10. mountainbikermark

    mountainbikermark Super Moderator
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    3,886
    Trophy Points:
    1,563
    Ratings:
    +4,348
    That's truncated?

    Support Our Troops!!!
    Beast Mode 4
    <><
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. FoxKat

    FoxKat Premium Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    14,806
    Likes Received:
    4,751
    Trophy Points:
    838
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ratings:
    +5,290
    Current Phone Model:
    Droid Turbo 2 & Galaxy S7
    No, silly... the post I responded to was truncated. Mine was expectedly a novel.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 3