Apple is falling

Discussion in 'Android News' started by pc747, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. cereal killer
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    cereal killer DF Administrator Staff Member

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    Maybe they are not that interested in emerging markets, I dunno. It's obvious they aren't looking to penetrate emerging markets, but "why?" is my biggest question. Maybe they know they can't compete with Windows Phone and Android in these markets so why bother. I don't know.

    They will see increased margins when selling the 5C so maybe that's their bottom line. It's a mystery.....to me at least :)
  2. pc747
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    pc747 DF Administrator Staff Member Rescue Squad

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    But the purpose of the 5c, at least from what I gather, was to penetrate into emerging markets which is where samsung and htc is doing well. I think they didnt do enough home work in those markets.
  3. combatmedic870
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    combatmedic870 Well-Known Member

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    Is not the same phone as the 5. it loses the metal build and sapphire glass lens.
    Those I'm sure are two decent cost savers. Don't agree with this.
    I have an I phone 5 the build will quality is very very good. Hope this raises the value of it!
    Getting a note 3 next I think.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  4. CBMGGM
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    CBMGGM New Member

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    +1
    I tend to agree as well. They have nothing new to offer other than an ungraded CPU in the 5S and a more polished OS. Most of my co-workers that currently own the fruity phone are dumping them quickly. Not one showed the least bit of interest in yesterday's launch. Times have changed since 2007; that's one of Apple's faults. They still think it's '07. I had a bet with a friend of mine. By the end of 2013 Apple's stocks would drop below $500.00 It's only September and they are almost there. Just think in mid 2012 they were close to $1K a share. Apple meet Blackberry..... Time to wake up Mr. Cook
  5. Hugh Jass
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    Hugh Jass Well-Known Member

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    I think all of you are wrong. Apple is doing what Apple has always done, and this is no different really. You can say investors sense weakness, Apple lost Jobs and thus it's direction, so on and so forth...but not me. What I see is the most competitive market the smartphone has seen yet. We have GS4, LGG2, HTC-One, Huawei, Sony Xperia, Nokia Lumia, Galaxy Note, and I hate to list it but all the Motorola's too... and all the differentiation's and mini's in-between. All of these devices are great.

    This is the first time the market isn't just flooded with Android, it's flooded with fantastic android. Fragmentation is down. Rooting is a luxury instead of a necessity. Options galore.

    Apple hasn't lost their touch, they're business model simply isn't designed to compete with this. They release X number of devices at X time of the year and upgrade X time of the year, and that is set in stone because that's how they operate...predictably. They aren't going to pump out 2 upgrades back to back with crazy new designs that creates holes in their software from device to device. They're precise, conservative, and conscientious to their image and believe that predictability is key to reliability and consumer trust. The rest of the market is aggressive, tactical, and frankly overwhelming, relying on the numbers to gain market-share. To change what has been set in stone for years will eliminate the fanboyism that floats the company today, to be like the rest is to concede they're place in the market and will guarantee their failure over time. Apple is in quicksand, and to struggle is futile and only hastens their suffocation. They don't need change, they need more of the same.
  6. CBMGGM
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    CBMGGM New Member

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    I thought there was a fan boy somewhere in this thread. I completely disagree with most of your reasoning. The Mobile Market is changing so rapidly with explosive growth; faster turnaround of product is essential to a company's lifespan. I hate to say this but we are watching the slow death of Apple. Huge things are happening in 2014 with Google. The 800 pound gorilla will double in size very soon.
  7. pc747
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    pc747 DF Administrator Staff Member Rescue Squad

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    Fanboys...no think a lot of that has died down...tech fans yes. I really do not think apple is dying. I believe right now they are in a slump and that was why i asked who would benefit most from the slump. But apple has a lot of good engineers and talented people working for them. Inspiration can comes from desperation. The Galaxy S when it first came out grabbed attentions but with slow updates and different models for different carriers Samsung was looking up at HTC, Motorola, and Apple. It wasnt until the galaxy s2 and Galaxy note that people started to turn heads. I expect apple to come back strong which will be good for the market. A strong apple elevates the competition keeping android oems from getting lazy. That is my concern about Samsung now that we can argue that they are top dog right now. Will they slip up or will another android oem be able to come up with the next "it factor" that will turn eyes toward them?
    Personally I am hoping motorola can step up and bring to the market that device that truly turn heads.
  8. Hugh Jass
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    Hugh Jass Well-Known Member

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    If you assume I'm an Apple fan, you're wrong in every way. Last Apple thing I owned was the original iPod that I found on a bench at school that no one claimed in the lost and found.

    But I do think they hold fantastic market-share for a reason, and obviously a really good one since if any other brand tried their tactics they wouldn't last 12 months. They don't have to reinvent wheels to keep a car moving like everyone else, they just change the tires once in a while. Sure this gets old over time, and as every thing what goes up must come down. Google can not last forever. Walmart can not last forever. Nothing can...but suggesting that they should reverse everything that makes them what they are is genuinely corporate suicide for Apple.

    Just because they fold a hand doesn't mean they don't hold pocket Aces, you can't underestimate the potential and capital that they've developed. They might not innovate fast enough for the world around them, but I doubt anyone but Google could go all in like they can if they have to.
  9. dgstorm
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    dgstorm Editor in Chief Staff Member Premium Member

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    I'd like to add that I was fairly impressed with the iPhone 5S announcement yesterday, and I have never been impressed with an iPhone. (I primarily liked the 64-bit CPU tech because I didn't expect this to come so soon).

    However, I would also like to point out that the Touch ID fingerprint scanner has actually been done before. The Motorola Atrix (an Android phone) had a fingerprint scanner that allowed you to unlock the phone. It never caught on as more than a gimmick. Of course, Apple are the grand masters of marketing so they perhaps will be able to make the fingerprint scanner much more usable and appealing to the masses.

    Ultimately, Apple is in a tough spot when it comes to investors. On the one hand, if they had brought out a truly mass market affordable price on the iPhone 5C like investors were clamoring for, then the stock price probably would have jumped. However, if they had, then 6 months to a year down the road, these same investors would be selling off Apple stock. This would be due to Apple's famously high profit margins eroding because they are selling a device at a much cheaper price point than in the past. Either they appeal to the investors now, or they stick to the game plan that has always worked for them, and that is making a product with a premium reputation and a premium price tag.

    In the long run, Apple's deals with China and Japan will bring a huge influx of cash from selling the iPhone 4S at the low end, the iPhone 5C at the mid-range, and the iPhone 5S in the high-end. Those same investors who sold off Apple stock now will probably be buying at that time.

    As far as Apple falling since Steve Jobs' death, that is actually a different subject really. I will say this, the company doesn't seem to be as innovative or edgy as it was before, and may have lost some of its "mystique." Perhaps it's missing a bit of its creative fire. This will definitely have an impact at some point, but it will probably be a slow effect over a long period of time.

    Just my analysis... :)
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2013
  10. dezymond
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    dezymond Tech Support Mod Staff Member Premium Member

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    I like to think Apple as the brick oven of the competition. They may not provide the latest technology and they don't cook up a new idea as quick as they used to, but whatever the end product is it's pretty dang good, like a brick oven pizza:p

    I agree mostly with Hugh because Android does move at a rate that not many other companies can keep up at, especially since Android appeals to almost every market from low to high end. Apple has and always will be high end, that was their target audience since the company's birth and it will be til if/when they fade away. They're more about refining than innovating nowadays, but they certainly don't need to change things up. In fact, Samsung took a page out of Apple's blueprint with the s4/N3 and that seems to be working out quite well for them as well.

    They may not change at the rapid rate Android does, but there are millions of people who like to stick with what they know. Apple provides that stability and reliability for that audience. Call them sheep or what have you, but they're the ones keeping Apple alive and helping Android innovate as they are. If Apple is slowly dying like I think they are for the past couple years, then it's going to be a slow slow one that won't really be felt for many more years to come I think.
  11. pc747
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    pc747 DF Administrator Staff Member Rescue Squad

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    by the way to all that chimed in all of you have been posting some good points . good job

    [​IMG]
  12. BOBD1950
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    BOBD1950 New Member

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    ..."IS ..falling.?

    They have proved that there is "not one born every minute"
  13. BOBD1950
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    BOBD1950 New Member

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    I took out my shiny new clear cover silver, HTC1 in crowded bar with a load of 20-40 somethings and drew a small group that was shocked..shocked I tell you ..that it was not a NEW iPhone # whatever.

    AND that screen and front speakers rock'n a COLDPLAY "viva la vida" youtube vid ..might have turned a few i fans next purchase...

    My point is...Younger tech consumers' tastes and wants are ever changing..and Apple playing 2007 in 2013 wont work..just because of a "hip" logo.
  14. dezymond
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    dezymond Tech Support Mod Staff Member Premium Member

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    I think this is a good article: Apple's iPhone 5c isn't the low-cost phone you've been waiting for and this quote sums up Apple nicely:


    Bob you're right when it comes to younger tech consumers' tastes that they change and frequently, which is why Apple decided to release the 5c. By offering different colored phones, you're offering the customer another choice and therefore giving them more control and that's not including the different color combination of cases either. It's not MotoMaker sophisticated, but the fact that there are color choices definitely opens up the market, especially to the general public who could care less how many ghz or ram there is on a phone and instead look at the choices available or the quality of the camera. For so many years iPhone adopters had two options; white and black, now that they offer at least 5 colors, it's a powerful marketing tool. To the members here on the board, we're on here to learn more about our device and some of us would be considered "techies", Apple isn't targeting us.

    Their name has definitely lost some merit over the years, but it still greatly influences the tech world and they're still a tech juggernaut. Android has hundreds, if not thousands, of choices available and that can be extremely overwhelming to new buyers. Just on Verizon alone an adopter of Android has at least 3 choices (Motorola, Samsung, HTC) and each respective manufacturer has multiple devices available. Everyone likes choices and Android gives that to us, but it can be information overload and Apple combats that with simplicity. Although people get less choices with Apple, they know they're getting a solid product and not be so overwhelmed with the different choices and features each individual Android phone offers.

    As it's been repeated many times throughout history, sometimes "simple is best". And that's exactly what Apple offers, simplicity for the average user. It's what Apple has pushed since the original iPhone, and in 2013 it's the same concept, just with more choices.
  15. mountainbikermark
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    mountainbikermark DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    I'm telling ya, you'll see more chemically enhanced youthful looking faces toting around the bright colored iPhones than truly young skinned users.
    I think their stock is being artificially deflated as well until the sales figures of the demographic buyers being the same ones making huge profits for the diet pill, yoga pants in xxl (10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound bag ) , and wrinkle cream makers. Wall Street is a bunch of power junkies using stock futures as their drug of choice. They're as nervous and quirky as a heroine addict that's trying to come clean by using a case of Red Bull as a substitute.

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  16. Hugh Jass
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    Hugh Jass Well-Known Member

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    lol.
  17. TatDroid
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    TatDroid Active Member

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    This is EXACTLY what I was going to say. Apple is backed up against the wall in a no win situation as far as the smartphone situation goes. They are now becoming a profitable niche player - just like with PCs. The only way out, just as they have done time and again, is to wow the world with THE NEXT BIG THING that no one saw coming. But, can they do it without Steve Jobs?
  18. mountainbikermark
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    mountainbikermark DF Super Moderator Staff Member Premium Member

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    No.
    Jobs didn't seem to give a rat's butt about share holders. He hired suits to care about that for him. Those suits might be able to count beans very well but they're not Steve Jobs by any means and will never have the outside the box thinking he had. Their definition of outside the box is hire a lawyer to figure out new ways to sue someone.


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  19. Hugh Jass
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    Hugh Jass Well-Known Member

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    Although Jobs had vision and ideas, I think too much credit is given to his future-ability. To say if he were alive right now things would be different for the better? I highly doubt it. He had a pipeline of ideas that he didn't take to his grave I'm sure, but suggesting he's the only person at the helm of one of the most profitable companies in history with ideas and vision is foolish. Would he invent the next big thing? Maybe, but probably not. We have some solid years of perfecting the tech we already have and using it in new ways (wearable tech, or augmented reality) that are pretty much obvious directions from here.
  20. acousticshade
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    acousticshade New Member

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    I'm not surprised that the 5s doesn't have any really killer advances, but I am disappointed. I'm wondering if this is the start of a slowing down on mobile device innovation. It still is a solid device as others have mentioned, but I won't buy one because I don't like the closed os & apple's unethical business practices.

    It will be interesting to see which new phone has the best camera. On one end is the low MP ultrapixel camera from HTC and on the other is the 20 MP Sony with apple, acer and Samsung in the middle. The high mp camera won't be worth it if there is too much loss of fine detail from a poor sensor, but low MP's also means grainy photos when blown up.
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