Apple Having a Hard Time Trying to Invalidate HTC Patents in a U.S. Court

Discussion in 'Android News' started by dgstorm, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. dgstorm
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    dgstorm Editor in Chief Staff Member Premium Member

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    [​IMG]

    Well, the Apple vs. Samsung case certainly seemed to end up rather lopsided in Apple's favor, but it doesn't appear that will happen across the board in Apple's other patent wars. According to a new report from CNET, the judge in that case, Justice Thomas Pender, seems to be taking a more fair and balanced approach. Just in case you forgot some of the details of some of the Apple vs. HTC (and vice versa) cases, here's the breakdown:
    • In 2010, Apple sued HTC claiming several patent violations, and the initial ruling was in Apple's favor on two patent violations. HTC developed workarounds to bypass the patent violations.
    • In 2011, HTC filed a counter-offensive lawsuit. Google sold some WiFi patents to Motorola and they used them to sue Apple claiming they violated these patents. HTC was asking for an import ban of Apple's line of Macs, iPads, iPods, iPhones, and other Wi-Fi enabled devices.
    • Also, earlier this year, HTC scored a major victory in its defense against Apple in the U.K., where a judge ruled that three of the four Apple patents they were suing HTC on were invalid, and that the fourth was simply not being infringed.
    So now we come to another separate case where Apple is being sued by HTC. HTC accused Apple of infringing on two 4G technology patents. If the court rules in favor of HTC, it could lead to an import ban on 4G enabled Apple devices including the new iPad, and the iPhone 5 which is set to launch soon (since it is likely to include the same 4G tech that is in the current iPad). Apple argued that the case should be thrown out because HTC's patents aren't valid. Justice Pender has made it clear that this he is unlikely to be convinced of this. In reference to determining whether a patent should be issued, there are several quotes from him (in no particular order), "Clear and convincing means something to me. I have to be pretty darn certain a U.S. patent is invalid. I don’t care if they bought these patents to sue you or not. [The patents] are a property right."

    This definitely makes it seem that Apple has an uphill battle to stave off this lawsuit from HTC. Additionally, some other statements that the Judge made are encouraging because seem to indicate that he keeps up with the mobile tech world. Here's a quote with some details,

    Well, at least it's nice to see that some of the Apple vs. "the world" lawsuits are in reasonable hands.

    Thanks for the tip, WERA689!

    Source: SlashGear
  2. johnomaz
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    johnomaz Well-Known Member

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    BURN APPLE BURN! Am I an Android Fanboy, no. I think the new Windows Mobile phones look pretty sweet, I just hate Apple for their business practices and all around douchiness.
  3. LoudRam
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    LoudRam Well-Known Member

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    It looks like David just might take down Golliath. GO HTC!!!!

    Sent from my HTC Rezound using Droid Forums
  4. armeddroid
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    armeddroid New Member

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    So now HTC and Samsung have LTE patent disputes against Apple and judging by the articles, both Samsung and HTC seem confident in their case.
    Interesting.
  5. BaSHa
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    BaSHa New Member

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    hahahahhaaaaaa, Apple has no room to talk about patents being valid or not! lol
  6. Anomander
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    Anomander New Member

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    My guess is since it is not an Apple patent it can not be valid by Apples line of thought. This case should be interesting to see. To bad Samsung did not get a judge like this on their trial.
  7. BJPalmer85
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    BJPalmer85 New Member

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    I am for against a potential ban on the iPhone 5, if it were to happen.

    Part of me, the part that loves Android and loves the progression that is made through the competative tech market, wants to see Apple pay for the crap they pulled with Samsung.

    The other part thinks it would be a bad thing if the iPhone 5 were banned. My reasoning is purely economic. If the iPhone 5 got banned that would me that Apple would lose all that income they were predicting as well as the money they would lose by having to take the phone back and get the radio's changed so that they werent infringing. The loss of money would be a trickle down affect and could result in the loss of jobs (in a worst case senario).

    It's all hypothetical but could become a reality depending on the new on Sept 12th and what happens after that.

    just my .02

    B
  8. johnomaz
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    johnomaz Well-Known Member

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    Or apple should pony up and pay the licensing fees. They love to claim they are the most valuable company with their vast money reserves...use it and pay what they are supposed to.
  9. armeddroid
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    armeddroid New Member

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    Apple will not lose any jobs for being banned cause we know its only temporary but Apple needs to be humbled.
    They need to remember where they come from and realize that their tech is nothing new in terms of innovation. It was improved upon over time which is no different then Android and yet, Jobs claim that it was stolen tech even though his infamous quote in 97 was
    "Artists copy and Great Artists steal."

    Time to take them back and follow it up with a smack, not just in their face but in their pockets.
    An eye for an eye principle is a terrible idea but it can def make them understand.

    Its like a punchline to a joke.
    Now they get it.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  10. jseah
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    jseah New Member

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    Here's the problem. In the patent infringement suit Apple filed against Samsung, their request for damages detailed that Samsung should pay them $24 per phone for violating their design patents (i.e. rectangular phone with rounded corners). Adding in the other patents, Apple wanted about $30 per phone from Samsung. Apple based their damages on the "retail" price of the phones found to be in violation.

    When Samsung filed a patent infringement suit against Apple for infringing on their wireless radio patents, and Apple lost, it was determined that Samsung had to allow Apple to license the patents under FRAND rules. Apple felt that a fair price to pay Samsung for their patents was less than half a cent per phone (0.0049 to be exact). Apple based the price on the manufacturer's cost of the radio chips found to be in violation.
  11. jseah
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    jseah New Member

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    Considering that Apple doesn't actually manufacture the products in question (they design them and farm out the manufacture of the devices to other companies), let alone manufacture the devices in the US (they are all built in China), how would a product ban result in lost jobs in the US? Do you really care if some underpaid assembly worker working under sweatshop conditions in a foreign country is laid off?

    Besides, it would be just desserts for Apple to have their devices stopped at the border, as they did the same thing to HTC when they had the ITC delay the release of their One series of phones.
  12. RideZeLitenin
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    RideZeLitenin New Member

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    Quietly Brilliant
  13. liftedplane
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    liftedplane Well-Known Member

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    they wouldn't lose any money, besides if apple were to go out of business, like they nearly did in the 90's another tech company would eventually take their spot. However as armeddroid said, apple needs to be put in their place and remember exactly where they came from. That they were laughed out of a couple of meetings when proposing the idea of a PC. they started in a garage and they showed all the tech giants just how wrong they were... the problem is that now apple has because that horrible tech giant that can't see past their own nose.
  14. MissionImprobable
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    MissionImprobable Well-Known Member

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    Apple needs a hot, steaming dose of "Wake the heck up." As mentioned jobs will not be lost; this will cause Apple to either take the time to develop a workaround knowing how long such would take to implement, or they can do what needs to be done and pay whatever licensing fees HTC deems fair. I don't think this new 4G hardware falls under FRAND as of now and as such Apple will simply have to deal with the situation they have put themselves in. [sarcasm]Couldn't have happened to a nicer company.[/sarcasm]
  15. jroc
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    jroc Well-Known Member

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    Whats funny about this...Apple did the same thing in case Samsung sues them for LTE.....before they knew the outcome of this decision...I assume they didnt know.

    Apple...practice hypocrisy much? I think the word hypocrite will be changed to link to Apple...online and in paper dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc.
  16. Xplorer4x4
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    Xplorer4x4 New Member

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    At least in the US the employee could find another job. It might not be the same line of work but I have always been of the belief that if you need a job that bad take your ass to the nearest fast food place. It may not pay all the bills, but at least it's money! It's better then doing nothing! Over there it's not that easy.
  17. jseah
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    jseah New Member

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    That's because we Americans are fat and lazy. What incentive does an unemployed worker have to look for a job? If they got laid off, they can collect unemployment for up to 99 weeks....money for doing nothing. And if they get hired at a fast food joint, then they lose the unemployment. And if they cannot get unemployment, then they go on welfare....again money for doing nothing. And better yet....the more kids they push out, the more money they get. This is why the US depends on the illegal immigrants and migrant farmworkers, to do the jobs that needs to be done, but no Americans are willing to do them. How many "Americans" do you see out in the fields picking lettuce or in the office buildings at night picking up the trash or cleaning toilets?

    In China, if Foxconn isn't manufacturing iPhones because they can't be shipped into the US, then the company will manufacture something else that can. And for every employee that quits, there are 10 waiting to take their place.