What happened to the Carbon Case thread?

[Carboncase]

Hey guys, sorry I've been a bit absent. Been getting everything sorted out, got some new drilling toys (just got in today) so im gonna be working on these tonight to finish all 3 of the slidouts.

To give everybody a heads up, if the slidout/cutout works out then we will continue to make them and fill everybodies order.

If it doesnt we are going to offer to those still paid the option to switch over to the keyboard slideout. Since making those are not an issue at all I feel confident we can get those made quickly. In that case the elimination is going to be suspended until I can get jigs made and the process down. (thats the issue with one off parts, theres no manual to tell you how to make them), but the advantage will be that once that process is done, those who decided to stick with us and switch I will give you the option to get an elimination case at no cost. You will have to send back the slideout case and it will have to be in perfect condition though.

So...Let me make sure I understand you correctly here...Please excuse me if I sound like I'm flaming you or angry. Truth is, I'm completely disappointed and perplexed.

Let's start at the beginning. Someone made a thread looking for a case that eliminates the slide-out keyboard function. You guys show up (Chris at first, then Mark later) confident that you can deliver such a product and made out of carbon fiber to boot. You swear up and down that you can provide a quality product and give us a turn-around date.

Fast forward to now, you're not making us the cases you promised right now and have no idea if/when you WILL be able to make those cases, but we CAN accept a case that's completely the opposite of what we were looking for in the first place? And if/when you finally get the whole thing figured out and can make a decent keyboard eliminating case, we can exchange the case that we don't want for the one that we do want, as long as we haven't accidentally dropped them once or twice?

Insert vulgarities here

I would like a refund immediately. I never ASKED you guys to make me this case. You came in here and told us that you could/would and have completely and utterly failed to do so and now we can accept something that's nothing like what we want (I was MUCH more interested in the feature of eliminating the slide-out than I was having a carbon fiber case. That was just a plus), but we can get what we want, as long as nothing happens in the meantime.

This is pretty ridiculous. I had some words with Chris after I had invested my money, and he alleviated my concerns, and then I went to bat for you guys and had your backs to the point of getting so upset with people talking crap on you that I had my very first post reported to admins/mods because of the intensity with which I typed and the word choice I used, even though I did my best to edit myself.

I'm still trying to edit myself here, but I can't believe that you think this is a good way to handle this situation. Because YOU couldn't deliver on YOUR promise, we can send you back the case that's not what we paid THAT MUCH money for as long as nothing happens to it? Why the hell would anyone even use that case if they planned on trying to return it with such a crazy stipulation. For all that we've been through with this whole thing, the best you can do is to cover a few dollars on shipping for us to return something to you that you're just going to turn around and sell anyway?

I want my money back. I'm so upset over this one post that Mark has made that I can barely collect my thoughts, but I hope I've expressed them to a certain degree. I could ramble on and on but I'm so perplexed by your terrible though processes that I've already repeated myself quite a bit, so I'll leave it at that. You'll both be receiving a pm from me and Chris will be getting an e-mail as well, since his is the only one I have.

Best of luck in your endeavors, but I refuse to be a part of them any longer.

Johnny, I think your misunderstanding this whole thing.

Im giving people the option to get their case sooner than later if this doesn't work. Im not sure why you seem so offended by this offer? Some people are ok with switching to the other case for now, or maybe even permanently if they like it.

I posted that as an option as a worst case scenario, I'm not saying the elimination cases wont come out right. I just got a decent amount of new cutting wheels and tools to get these cases the best I can so trust me. I am making the biggest effort to get these made. Right now honestly its a 75/25 these cases will come out the way I want. I just posted this as an option to those involved. Its a simple offer so please dont take it as a bad thing. Nobody is forced to take the offer if you're ok with waiting until I get this process down of getting the hole cutouts down. I hate making you guys wait for this but with all these unforseen problems I wanted to give those involved the option to have a case on their phone while I get the process down for an extremely complicated case.

Maybe Im missing something here but I figure this would be a courteous thing to offer at least

[Jonny Kansas]

You're not giving us any sort of timeline (though you haven't followed through all that well with those from the beginning) as to when you think you might have this all figured out.

I don't think it's very courteous of you to offer to take back the case that I didn't order, but ONLY if it's in perfect condition. To me, if you can't take them back with a little bit of general wear and tear, it seems like you're hoping we either won't want to exchange them for what we wanted in the first place, or you're hoping we'll accidentally put a scratch or ding in them and you can refuse to follow through. I think I've been more than patient throughout this whole thing, but my Droid has been without a case the entire time I've been waiting and waiting and waiting on you guys and I'm ok with that. I don't want or need this case. What I do require is a refund.

I'm sorry if I came across too harsh, but I'm frankly fed-up with this whole process. Not trying to be a jerk about it, I've lost interest in the case and faith in you guys and I'd really hate to have to go through PayPal to get my money back and contact a mod from this forum for records of the entire situation, so I hope you can just accept the fact that I'm not satisfied with where this whole project has been for quite some time and I'm not satisfied with the direction it's headed in.

Please give me my refund and I'll be on my way. If I see quality pics down the road and shining reviews from satisfied customers, I might look into your product again, but at this point, I just want to wash my hands of the whole thing and get my money back.

Sorry.

[xliderider]

I find it really sad (and not in a boohoo kind of way) that you (Chris & Mark) have managed to lose two of your staunchest supporters throughout this project. First Jose, and now Jonny, who have really covered your a$$es and defended you from other members on this forum who had doubts about the way everything has played out.

I can't say I blame them, especially Jose, for losing faith in your ability to bring this whole mess of an endeavour to any kind of a positive outcome.

Don't forget to post pics of the finished cases before they are sent out to Jose and Funken. I am anxiously awaiting pics from them as well as their comments, but I'd still like to see you follow through and do something you say would happen.

[Carboncase]

You're not giving us any sort of timeline (though you haven't followed through all that well with those from the beginning) as to when you think you might have this all figured out.

I don't think it's very courteous of you to offer to take back the case that I didn't order, but ONLY if it's in perfect condition. To me, if you can't take them back with a little bit of general wear and tear, it seems like you're hoping we either won't want to exchange them for what we wanted in the first place, or you're hoping we'll accidentally put a scratch or ding in them and you can refuse to follow through. I think I've been more than patient throughout this whole thing, but my Droid has been without a case the entire time I've been waiting and waiting and waiting on you guys and I'm ok with that. I don't want or need this case. What I do require is a refund.

I'm sorry if I came across too harsh, but I'm frankly fed-up with this whole process. Not trying to be a jerk about it, I've lost interest in the case and faith in you guys and I'd really hate to have to go through PayPal to get my money back and contact a mod from this forum for records of the entire situation, so I hope you can just accept the fact that I'm not satisfied with where this whole project has been for quite some time and I'm not satisfied with the direction it's headed in.

Please give me my refund and I'll be on my way. If I see quality pics down the road and shining reviews from satisfied customers, I might look into your product again, but at this point, I just want to wash my hands of the whole thing and get my money back.

Sorry.

Johnny, I'll issue you refund, that's not a problem.

But just so you know, you are attacking me for offering you guys an alternative. I never said anybody has to take it. That's why its an option. If you still want to be one of these first 3 cases I already have its your call. If not the elimination case will go to the next person on the list. Now that I have my new tools specifically for these cases im confident but dont rip my head of for giving you guys an option.

Actually it was some members that wanted to do this, that sparked this idea. So I figured I would see if anybody wanted to do it.

[funken]

I thought you were going to post pics last night.

[Jonny Kansas]

For those of you who aren't Mark and Chris, Mark sent me a pm trying to further explain his post with the offer to switch, telling me he'd issue a refund, but saying that he'd really like me to stay on board. Since everything else has been done pretty much in the open with this project, I'll post here what my pm reply says to him. I'd be really happy to hear responses from others who purchased these cases, as well as (I know, you're gonna be shocked here after my outburst a while ago against these people...) people who've just been following along. I really don't think I'm out of line and I think I've got a right to be upset about all of this has gone, but maybe I'm just crazy. In any case, I'm a firm believer in standing up for what I think and believe, so this is where I stand with the Carbon Case guys today.

"Guys, I can totally see your point of view on this whole thing. You've been under the gun and trapped under the microscope of skeptics practically since day one. You've experienced unforseen/uncontrollable issues and taken the heat that came with it. I can understand why you've offered an alternative to keep yourselves from losing too much more on the startup of this project.

However, you have to take a minute to look at this from my/other paid buyers side of things. I can only speak for myself, so that's what I'll do. I stumbled onto the thread about a case that stops the keyboard from sliding out because that was something I'm totally interested in, as I never use the slide-out keyboard. Christ shows up and says "Hey, we can do this AND we can make it out of carbon fiber." That's a kick ass idea to me.

Then, I pay my money and wait. Deadline comes and goes, and we find out there have been complications. Ok. I can handle that. This is a custom made item, so I can expect a few bumps in the road. Once manufacturing actually kicked into gear, progress dates weren't good to say the least. Even if you popped in to say, "We're still working on this." And gave us a little bit of info on what's going on and why it's taking so long, that would've been nice. Instead, we got silence.

When we finally got some pics of where you were headed, I was excited. Things were looking good and my faith was restored. I even showed those pics off to people I know explaining what they were all about and how these were cases in the process of being made and I was going to be one of a select few to have one of these awesome things.

It's been a couple months, and I feel like I'm no closer to having the case that I want, the case that you promised you could make and promised would be high quality and promised by a date that has long gone and promised by other times that have also passed us by.

$60+ is money that I could EASILY spend elsewhere. It's also the most I've ever paid for a phone accessory. I was willing to do that because of Chris' confidence in the work that would go into these things, the quality of the resulting product, and the time by which I would receive it.

Thought the option to switch to a case that should be easier for you guys to produce isn't a BAD offer, it's not the offer for me. I only ever wanted the keyboard eliminating case that drew me to the original thread about these cases in the first place. THAT, to me is truly something unique and incredibly handy.

I'd still really like a high quality, red, carbon fiber, keyboard eliminating case that I was promised with my deposit of money. However, I'm not willing to wait another couple of months for you to perfect something that you told us you could do.

Here's my offer to you so you don't lose more business than you already have, if you can give me a realistic timeline for when you think I'll have my case AND deliver on that time, I'd be more than happy to accept the product as long as it's in satisfactory condition. If that deadline passes, refund my money with no excuses, no questions asked, no attempts to keep me "onboard," and I'll gladly walk away and be done with the issue and not say another word about it. The ball is in your court. Let me know what you think."

[joeymoose]

I will have a Seido case for my Incredible before any quality case gets produced (and Shipped) from this guy for the Droid....

[xliderider]

I will have pics tonight for you guys.

I thought you were going to post pics last night.

This is why people are getting frusrtrated, impatient, upset (insert adjective here), because deadlines and promises are not met.

[knicho19]

I have been a silent, completely faitful supporter from the time i ponied up for this thing. (pretty long ago seeing as i was #4 on the list) But now im finding myself kind of where Kansas is on this one right now.

I bought this case because it eliminated the keyboard. The carbon fiber was a "super cool" perk (and a very expensive one, especially for a college kid)
Truth is i have patiently waited and waited hoping that this would work. Denial? Maybe. But i tried to be as optimistic as possible for as long as possible. (which for me is quite a feat.)

But now that there are all these strings attached about if this doesnt work, or once we get this perfect, or once its to my satisfaction.
Honestly i am this close to pulling the plug on this experiment and asking for my refund again. You guys talk about how 60 is nothing and its a solid investment for protecting your phone, for some thats true. As for me, its currently more money than my bank account holds.
I havent had a case on for all this time waiting and my phone has been okay so its not like im dying to have a case. The biggest problem for me is justifying an empty bank account while you guys sort out this mess. (which i know is not all your fault) BUT there is a mess nonetheless...

I have NO interest in a case that wont kill the keyboard as i believe a lot of us would agree on. If this doesnt work we should either get the sliding case FREE for our support and the money that WE spent to get you guys started, something that most businesses cover on their own, an expense you dont often leave for the guinea pigs to pay. And once youve got all your ducks in a row for the keyboard covering case you can send us that one too. It's not like these 10 cases you lose are going to hurt your business long run. You obviously have other cases to sell and make a profit. i think its time you guys pay a little extra for us since WE have paid the extra for YOU. It absolutely absurd to ask for these cases back. ESPECIALLY if you plan on reselling a case that has been used. I would not be happy to receive a case that had been used paying that kind of money for it.

[Slider4105]

I have been reading through this thread and the one that was temp. suspended for awhile now, and felt so strongly that I needed to put my two cents in that I finally got around to registering and here I am lol.

Carbon Case guys, try and look at it from everyone other than yourselves point of view. I get my Droid as a birthday present 3 weeks ago and am so in love with it I want to research everything I can about it. Coming from the custom car world, and being an engineer I am a WHORE for interesting materials (ie CF and Titanium). I happenstance upon your original thread about offering a custom CF case, and while I love using the physical keyboard I read every single post in it trying to find out more about your company and the product. As I keep reading, joy of joys to find out that you MAY make a non-keyboard eliminating case so I intensely read up on it.

Chris comes out saying hey guys, we have a product but want an initial group of buyers to gauge interest. Again, coming from custom car work I COMPLETELY understand that. Generally the companies will offer, FREE OF CHARGE, one or two of said product to guinea pig on customers cars. Now this generally applies to large companies (one that comes to mind for me is Stillen as I have used this to get car stuffs ), but when there's a smaller company or some guy in his back yard they want the initial monies to offset start up costs. Again, I GET THIS, and I think almost everyone is understanding of that.

So Chris continues taking orders promising the product, and trying to gain a bigger following in the product. However deadlines are not met, and promises are not kept. Finally the guy in California who was supposed to mass produce the product "fails" and the community is understandably annoyed. Then Mark comes along, and explains how its a difficult thing to make and to be patient. This quells the storm for awhile.

As time goes on, deadlines are not met and then just ignored, until finally someone gets really pissy and you say, "Yeah sorry about that, give it more time, this product is AWESOME and it needs a day or two more." well the day or two passes and nothing.

You keep going on saying of pictures are worthless because it wont show change, but that's EXACTLY what the community wants. Who cares if to YOU it doesn't show change, everyone wants to see it. I mean what harm can it do to you? It takes two seconds to take a picture, and even if someone says NO CHANGE LIARS, well who cares, you have documented the build. It's cool seeing a hand built product go from nothing to something.

Finally, the day has come when the first of many "top quality, high end CF cases" is made. It gets sent out, and the results are in; it's a POS, and made me fall out of my desk laughing. Mark comes out saying, well my helper finished it wrong so yadda yadda. I think everyone here is understandable and would expect a helper to work on the project, but come on guy check your work. Seriously you trusted your VERY first case and DID NOT look at it? Not even to box it up? Hell I love looking at my hand crafted work because I can go, "Damn right I made that, from nothing to something" and can be proud of it. But I suppose I am beating a dead horse here.

Then you get upset when people are understandably upset and poke fun at it? Come on guy, what would you do if you were in our shoes? You can't tell me you wouldn't go, "awwww **** son."

So time goes on and then here we are. You say hey were retooling everything but want to keep it quiet until things get worked out (does not make sense to me, seems like you would want to prove all the haters wrong?) but whatever it's all gravy. Then you say we PROMISE to put pictures up tonight and keep things updated, and a day or two goes by and nothing but defending yourself.

Listen we all get it, stuff happens. However when stuff KEEPS happening, then there's a problem. Maybe it really is just one crappy coincidence after another, but it seems odd. Chris keeps referencing how $700 or whatever amount is chump change and no way you'd screw the community out of that much money, but it's OUR hard earned money. Being a recent college grad I understand that $60 is A LOT sometimes. Hell even now, I'm not going to throw $60 all willy nilly around so I chose to wait.

Here are some problems with the situation. Firstly, you want to provide a product that people DID NOT buy. Then you want them to return it in PERFECT order to get the other one when or IF you finish the product they were promised. My guess is because now you're going CRAP it's harder to make this than I thought, and I may not even be able to make it. I would assume you want to turn around and re-sell the cases, which is cool look at open box stuff at BBY. However I would say 95% you wouldn't provide a discount on those cases, which I find super shady. You did say this was an option, but you threw in the disclaimer of WE MAY NEVER BE ABLE TO PRODUCE THE KEYBOARD ELIMINATING CASE AS PROMISED, because it may not live up to "our standards" (I saw the first case, standards aren't high...dig over)

I guess to me, the REAL fishy part about this is how there's now a guy moving from California to help build the cases, but how a guy in Cali was not up to standard to make them in the first place; I don't know if anyone picked up on that. Second would be how can you flaunt all your other cases, but it is this hard to make the Droid one? and shouldn't you have I don't know MADE one before promising it, or at least attempt to make one.

You guys don't owe me anything, and I'm not really expecting my post to get a response, just chiming in and giving myself a self righteous feeling. Good luck with your product, and I hope to be buying one from you in the future.