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Thread: Calibrate Battery?

  1. Droid Newbie
    APQuijano's Avatar
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    #21
    Hello! New to the forum and somewhat a smartphone noob and had a question about calibrating.

    I just recently got the Razr MAXX and I was one of those guys who didn't charge the phone to 100% while off out of the box (I was just way too excited). Only had the phone for a couple of days and was wondering if it's still possible to properly calibrate the phone using the "charge to 100% while off" method. If so, does the phone need to be in a particular charge state to do this? For example, can I calibrate the phone when it's at 75% or does it need to be lower?
  2. Super Moderator
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    #22
    Great question and the answer is yes and no...

    No, I'm not going to leave you hanging. LOL! Yes it can be calibrated to the battery at any time, and no it doesn't need to be at any particular charge level, since the three step charge, discharge, charge runs the phone past the flag points. Also, there is no lasting "damage" to not having done it immediately. The only reason why I stress you do if you can is because MOST people are going to do just what you did, use it till you drop as soon as you get it. There is a risk of pushing the battery voltages so low that the phone won't respond to the charger (White Light of Death), or may begin looping during boot (bootlooping), or cycling through power ons and offs (powercycling). This could happen if you use the phone till the level reaches 0% and the phone shuts down on its own. Unfortunately if this happens it can be difficult, and even not possible to recover from.

    So go forth and conquer. Do the meter training and you'll be fine. You'll want to charge to 100% with power off, then use to 15%, and then power off and charge to 100% with power off again. After that, if you perform that practice about every 3 months or so, you'll be good to go.

    "Professor FoxKat"
    "Saving DROID Razr's, one battery at a time. :-)" - (credit SallyC)
    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
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  3. Droid Newbie
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    Great question and the answer is yes and no...

    No, I'm not going to leave you hanging. LOL! Yes it can be calibrated to the battery at any time, and no it doesn't need to be at any particular charge level, since the three step charge, discharge, charge runs the phone past the flag points. Also, there is no lasting "damage" to not having done it immediately. The only reason why I stress you do if you can is because MOST people are going to do just what you did, use it till you drop as soon as you get it. There is a risk of pushing the battery voltages so low that the phone won't respond to the charger (White Light of Death), or may begin looping during boot (bootlooping), or cycling through power ons and offs (powercycling). This could happen if you use the phone till the level reaches 0% and the phone shuts down on its own. Unfortunately if this happens it can be difficult, and even not possible to recover from.

    So go forth and conquer. Do the meter training and you'll be fine. You'll want to charge to 100% with power off, then use to 15%, and then power off and charge to 100% with power off again. After that, if you perform that practice about every 3 months or so, you'll be good to go.
    Thank you very much your quick response and time! I definitely will make sure to make this is common knowledge to friends and family now.
  4. Master Droid
    Trash Can's Avatar
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    You can "technically" let the battery drain to 0% (where the phone powers down itself), however if the meter isn't properly calibrated to the battery (not the other way around), then there's a possibility that when the phone eventually shuts down the battery may actually be close to a critical level that will fail to respond next time you try to charge it. There have been many "bootlooping", "white light of death", "black screen of death", "power cycling" threads where they all originated from a phone that was allowed to drain and power down on its own.
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    There is a risk of pushing the battery voltages so low that the phone won't respond to the charger (White Light of Death), or may begin looping during boot (bootlooping), or cycling through power ons and offs (powercycling). This could happen if you use the phone till the level reaches 0% and the phone shuts down on its own. Unfortunately if this happens it can be difficult, and even not possible to recover from.
    Hey Professor, a good student always challenges his teacher.

    To an outside observer like myself, a lithium polymer battery is a lithium polymer battery. So why would charging recommendations vary from one manufacturer to another? Specifically, any idea why Apple recommends a full charge/discharge cycle once per month? The last paragraph on this Apple battery page says:

    Use iPhone Regularly
    For proper maintenance of a lithium-based battery, it’s important to keep the electrons in it moving occasionally. Be sure to go through at least one charge cycle per month (charging the battery to 100% and then completely running it down).
    I realize we're making an Apple to Razr/Bionic/Rezound comparison (pun intended), but conflicting information can be confusing information. Any insight that you can provide would be greatly appreciated, as many members here are former or current iPhone/iPad owners.
  5. Droid
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    #25
    If during calibration (charging with power off in the cycle 15% to 100%) happend a general power outage for 5-10 minutes, after the power failure charging restarts, this has some effect for calibration/battery?
  6. Super Moderator
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Trash Can View Post
    Hey Professor, a good student always challenges his teacher.

    To an outside observer like myself, a lithium polymer battery is a lithium polymer battery. So why would charging recommendations vary from one manufacturer to another? Specifically, any idea why Apple recommends a full charge/discharge cycle once per month? The last paragraph on this Apple battery page says:



    I realize we're making an Apple to Razr/Bionic/Rezound comparison (pun intended), but conflicting information can be confusing information. Any insight that you can provide would be greatly appreciated, as many members here are former or current iPhone/iPad owners.
    Sorry I'm just seeing this now, but let's run with it.

    You're thought process is not flawed, there are variables that determine what constitutes a full discharge. For one device manufacturer, a 0% of capacity may be at 3.2V, whereas another may peg it at 3.0. Obviously 3V is much closer to the "protection" Voltage of between 2.2V & 2.9V, so if one manufacturer says run it down, and another one says don't, the difference could be the cutoff voltage.

    Second, all Lithium batteries are not created equal. Lithium Ion Polymer Pouch Packs (in the RAZRs), are a different breed than all other LIPO batteries and are both higher in energy density and also come with their own unique characteristics.

    Another important issue is that with the LIPO Pouch Cells, the phone itself contains the protection circuits and charging circuits, so each phone manufacturer can tweak the various levels for things such as running voltages, cutoffs for charging and discharging, and the protection level. Apple may actually have their discharge level cutoff at a higher voltage than Motorola, and as a result there is a bigger cushion between 0% and the potential cutoff protection voltages.

    Also I checked the page you linked to and saw the quote you referred to, but I did also find this http://www.apple.com/batteries/, and it says in one section:
    "You can also recharge a lithium-ion polymer battery whenever convenient, without the full charge or discharge cycle necessary to keep nickel-based batteries at peak performance. (Over time, crystals build up in nickel-based batteries and prevent you from charging them completely, necessitating an inconvenient full discharge.)"


    This is in direct contrast to the quote you showed. Perhaps the issue here is what they call "completely running it down". In the RAZR, completely running it down is to 15% (10% with Jelly Bean), NOT to 0%. When the phone tells you it's time to plug in (the "Low battery warning at 15% - 10% with Jelly Bean), then you can reasonably conclude it's time to plug in.

    The same holds true for the iPhones. What people do is misinterpret that information to mean 0%. If Apple OR Motorola wanted you to discharge to 0%, they'd say it this way; "use your phone until it shows 0% on the display". If they wanted you to use it until it powered itself off with a completely deep-discharged battery, they'd say; "run your phone until the phone shuts off on its own". that's NOT what it says.

    If your car manufacturer told you to run the car till it was empty once a month, how many people do you think would actually do it? NONE? You'd have to drive on "E" for many miles, and then you would also have to carry with you a gas can full of gas so you could start the car again and drive it to the nearest station after it stalled at completely empty. I really don't think that either Apple OR Motorola meant "completely discharged" when they say "completely run it down".

    In fact, the same thing Apple is saying is what I've been saying too...charge to 100%, use to 15%, charge to 100%, or in layman's terms, "Charge to 100%, then completely run it down, then charge to 100% and use normally". This is a meter calibration cycle. Nothing new here folks, move along.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Last edited by FoxKat; 06-22-2013 at 04:14 PM.
    DamianD likes this.

    "Professor FoxKat"
    "Saving DROID Razr's, one battery at a time. :-)" - (credit SallyC)
    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianD View Post
    If during calibration (charging with power off in the cycle 15% to 100%) happend a general power outage for 5-10 minutes, after the power failure charging restarts, this has some effect for calibration/battery?
    No, none whatsoever. It would simply pick up where left off and continue.
    DamianD likes this.

    "Professor FoxKat"
    "Saving DROID Razr's, one battery at a time. :-)" - (credit SallyC)
    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
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  8. Droid
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    #28
    Ok, ...I just thought that it may occur an error in the calibration and a correct and safe way would be to resume the whole process again (discharge to 15%, power off and charge to100%)
  9. Super Moderator
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    #29
    Here's some more interesting information from Apple, which also corroborates my claims;
    Standard Charging

    Most lithium-ion polymer batteries use a fast charge to charge your device to 80% battery capacity, then switch to trickle charging. That’s about two hours of charge time to power an iPod to 80% capacity, then another two hours to fully charge it, if you are not using the iPod while charging. You can charge all lithium-ion batteries a large but finite number of times, as defined by charge cycle.
    Charge Cycle. Using and recharging 100% of battery capacity equals one full charge cycle.

    A charge cycle means using all of the battery’s power, but that doesn’t necessarily mean a single charge. For instance, you could listen to your iPod for a few hours one day, using half its power, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two, so you may take several days to complete a cycle. Each time you complete a charge cycle, it diminishes battery capacity slightly, but you can put notebook, iPod, and iPhone batteries through many charge cycles before they will only hold 80% of original battery capacity. As with other rechargeable batteries, you may eventually need to replace your battery.

    They're also showing the collective charges of the first 40%, then 20%, then 30%, and finally half of the next 20% constitutes the first 100% cycle (1 cycle), and the second half of the last 20%, along with the 50%, and 40% of the next 60% constitutes the second 100% cycle (2 cycles). So in that graphic, he's already 20% into his third 100% cycle.

    Sound familiar? Remember what I said all along, complete 100% cycles (or a collective of multiple partial cycles)?

    What they're showing is the following:

    Charge to - Use to

    100% ----- 60% (first 40% consumption),
    100% ----- 80% (next 20% consumed),
    100% ----- 70% (next 30% consumed),
    100% ----- 80% (next 20% consumed),
    100% ----- 50% (next 50% consumed),
    100% ----- 40% (last 60% consumed).

    The same could be accomplished like this:

    Charge to - Use to

    80% ------ 40% (first 40% consumption),
    60% ------ 40% (next 20% consumed),
    70% ------ 40% (next 30% consumed),
    60% ------ 40% (next 20% consumed),
    90% ------ 40% (next 50% consumed),
    100% ----- 40% (last 60% consumed).

    or;

    Charge to - Use to

    60% ------ 20% (first 40% consumption),
    40% ------ 20% (next 20% consumed),
    50% ------ 20% (next 30% consumed),
    40% ------ 20% (next 20% consumed),
    70% ------ 20% (next 50% consumed),
    80% ------ 20% (last 60% consumed).


    In those three examples, the first one would yield the shortest overall battery life because each charge was to 100%. The second would yield longer battery life because only 1 of the charge cycles took the battery to 100%. The third would yield the longest battery life, because the battery remained in the range of 20% to 80%, or the widest sweet spot.
    Last edited by FoxKat; 06-22-2012 at 06:30 PM.
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    "Professor FoxKat"
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    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
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  10. Super Moderator
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianD View Post
    Ok, ...I just thought that it may occur an error in the calibration and a correct and safe way would be to resume the whole process again (discharge to 15%, power off and charge to100%)
    Great thought process. The reason it doesn't throw off the calibration cycle is because the calibration flags are only set when the battery reaches the 100% charge (sets the "Full" flag), and when it reaches the 15% discharge (sets the "Empty" flag).

    Still, a great question.
    DamianD likes this.

    "Professor FoxKat"
    "Saving DROID Razr's, one battery at a time. :-)" - (credit SallyC)
    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
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