Overcharging?

[altjx]

Good stuff man. Thanks!

[Rogus]

What about this:

Consider, for a second, your evening routine. After washing up and slipping into pajamas, the last thing you do before hitting the pillow is drop your phone into a charger. Cell phone users around the world have all adopted this habit. But could it be bad for your phone's long-term battery life?

Leaving your phone to re-charge overnight is convenient—you're able to wake up in the morning to a full phone battery that will last through the workday and into the evening. But leaving your phone plugged in after reaching 100 percent is not best for your phone's battery long-term.

Tech tips blog Lifehacker shares some strategies for prolonging a device's battery life, including this advice about leaving a phone to charge overnight:

Similarly, lithium-ion batteries don't need to be charged all the way to 100%. ... If you do charge it to 100%, don't leave it plugged in. This is something most of us do, but it's another thing that will degrade your battery's health.

[FoxKat]

What about this:

Consider, for a second, your evening routine. After washing up and slipping into pajamas, the last thing you do before hitting the pillow is drop your phone into a charger. Cell phone users around the world have all adopted this habit. But could it be bad for your phone's long-term battery life?

Leaving your phone to re-charge overnight is convenient—you're able to wake up in the morning to a full phone battery that will last through the workday and into the evening. But leaving your phone plugged in after reaching 100 percent is not best for your phone's battery long-term.

Tech tips blog Lifehacker shares some strategies for prolonging a device's battery life, including this advice about leaving a phone to charge overnight:

Similarly, lithium-ion batteries don't need to be charged all the way to 100%. ... If you do charge it to 100%, don't leave it plugged in. This is something most of us do, but it's another thing that will degrade your battery's health.

This is good information and good food for thought. Here's how I would address your comments. In the case of leaving the phone on the charger all night, there is no doubt that is the routine the overwhelming percentage of users have adopted, and since we are creatures of habit, it's one that we'll be hard-pressed to break. Still, in the case of these smart phones, and also specifically with respect to Lithium Ion Polymer batteries, since it is proven that the longer these batteries remain at or near full charge, the shorter their overall lifespan will be, the one good thing we have to thank Motorola and other quality manufacturers for is understanding these multiple dynamics and taking them into consideration when designing these devices.

In the case of our phones, the charger is not charging all night long, instead it is charging until the battery reaches what it identifies as 100% of rated (or current) capacity (about 4.2 Volts), then turns off the charger completely. It then sits and watches the voltage levels of the battery as they slowly decline. If and when the voltage reaches about 4.00V-4.05V, it resumes a "topping off" charge cycle, boosting the charge level back to 100% (4.2V), at which time it shuts down again and resumes the same wait and see posture. This cycle may repeat itself one or two times overnight, or it may repeat more depending on whether the phone is powered on or not.

If the phone is off while charging, the decreasing voltage may not even reach the level to signal a topping off charge before pulling it off the charger in the morning. If the phone is on, depending on how active it is will determine how quickly the battery's voltage drops and how often it receives a topping off charge while you sleep. This is one reason why the manufacturer recommends you charge the phone with it powered off. However, that doesn't work well for those of us who use it as an alarm clock, or for those of us who need it to be able to receive calls even before we've woken up.

So the convenience we've all grown accustomed to is taken into consideration and a charging system was engineered to deal with the particulars of these batteries and bridge the gap between what the battery wants and our wants, needs, and long-formed habits. So the advice given by Lifehacker is right in theory (and was VERY appropriate advice for Nickel Cadmium and Nickel-Metal Hydride battery systems), but in application with our phones and Lithium Ion Polymer batteries is less of an issue or a non-issue. These phones are designed with a battery system that was meant not to be user-serviceable, so when designing the charging system and battery size, the manufacturers (phone & battery) picked a larger battery, set lower maximum voltage thresholds, limited current while charging, and designed charging algorithms to meet all individual best case scenarios at the most efficient common ground of compromise between length of charge, length of use per charge, and our lifestyles of awake versus asleep times, against overall battery life and expected "life of product" (how long they expect you will have the phone before replacing it with a newer model) to assure the battery will last the life of the phone.

In other words, enjoy the phone and don't stress out about the battery. The phone will take care of it fine for the most part.

[altjx]

This is good information and good food for thought. Here's how I would address your comments. In the case of leaving the phone on the charger all night, there is no doubt that is the routine the overwhelming percentage of users have adopted, and since we are creatures of habit, it's one that we'll be hard-pressed to break. Still, in the case of these smart phones, and also specifically with respect to Lithium Ion Polymer batteries, since it is proven that the longer these batteries remain at or near full charge, the shorter their overall lifespan will be, the one good thing we have to thank Motorola and other quality manufacturers for is understanding these multiple dynamics and taking them into consideration when designing these devices.

In the case of our phones, the charger is not charging all night long, instead it is charging until the battery reaches what it identifies as 100% of rated (or current) capacity (about 4.2 Volts), then turns off the charger completely. It then sits and watches the voltage levels of the battery as they slowly decline. If and when the voltage reaches about 4.00V-4.05V, it resumes a "topping off" charge cycle, boosting the charge level back to 100% (4.2V), at which time it shuts down again and resumes the same wait and see posture. This cycle may repeat itself one or two times overnight, or it may repeat more depending on whether the phone is powered on or not.

If the phone is off while charging, the decreasing voltage may not even reach the level to signal a topping off charge before pulling it off the charger in the morning. If the phone is on, depending on how active it is will determine how quickly the battery's voltage drops and how often it receives a topping off charge while you sleep. This is one reason why the manufacturer recommends you charge the phone with it powered off. However, that doesn't work well for those of us who use it as an alarm clock, or for those of us who need it to be able to receive calls even before we've woken up.

So the convenience we've all grown accustomed to is taken into consideration and a charging system was engineered to deal with the particulars of these batteries and bridge the gap between what the battery wants and our wants, needs, and long-formed habits. So the advice given by Lifehacker is right in theory (and was VERY appropriate advice for Nickel Cadmium and Nickel-Metal Hydride battery systems), but in application with our phones and Lithium Ion Polymer batteries is less of an issue or a non-issue. These phones are designed with a battery system that was meant not to be user-serviceable, so when designing the charging system and battery size, the manufacturers (phone & battery) picked a larger battery, set lower maximum voltage thresholds, limited current while charging, and designed charging algorithms to meet all individual best case scenarios at the most efficient common ground of compromise between length of charge, length of use per charge, and our lifestyles of awake versus asleep times, against overall battery life and expected "life of product" (how long they expect you will have the phone before replacing it with a newer model) to assure the battery will last the life of the phone.

In other words, enjoy the phone and don't stress out about the battery. The phone will take care of it fine for the most part.

Thank you. I've always heard so many mixed opinions about batteries, but I think I'd rather take your advice and let the phone take care of itself ^_^. it's too much of a worry trying to develop a habit of taking care of battery.

Again, thank you.

[FoxKat]

Thank you. I've always heard so many mixed opinions about batteries, but I think I'd rather take your advice and let the phone take care of itself ^_^. it's too much of a worry trying to develop a habit of taking care of battery.

Again, thank you.

No problem. There is only one thing I still suggest you add to your repertoire. Doing a "training" of the meter every 2-3 months. At the end of a day, power the phone off (press and hold the power button, then select "Power off"). Next, plug in the stock charger and cable. Allow the phone to boot to "charge only" mode. Let it charge for about 3 hours (until the animated battery says 100%). Now, power the phone on normally and user until you get the low battery warning at 15%. Finally perform the power off charge again. Once completed you'll be good for another 3 months.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Xparent ICS Tapatalk 2 using Google voice to text translation. Please excuse any minor spelling, punctuation, capitalization or grammatical errors.

[altjx]

No problem. There is only one thing I still suggest you add to your repertoire. Doing a "training" of the meter every 2-3 months. At the end of a day, power the phone off (press and hold the power button, then select "Power off"). Next, plug in the stock charger and cable. Allow the phone to boot to "charge only" mode. Let it charge for about 3 hours (until the animated battery says 100%). Now, power the phone on normally and user until you get the low battery warning at 15%. Finally perform the power off charge again. Once completed you'll be good for another 3 months.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Xparent ICS Tapatalk 2 using Google voice to text translation. Please excuse any minor spelling, punctuation, capitalization or grammatical errors.

Sounds good

[Rogus]

Now, power the phone on normally and user until you get the low battery warning at 15%.

I apologize if I've missed the answer to this question in the many posts I've read about battery charging, but why is 15% the magic number? For example why not 10%?

[jackiescivic]

If I remember reading his post correctly, Fox said that the lower it goes below 15%, the more chance you have of it not accepting the charge. I very well could be incorrect though

[FoxKat]

I apologize if I've missed the answer to this question in the many posts I've read about battery charging, but why is 15% the magic number? For example why not 10%?

If I remember reading his post correctly, Fox said that the lower it goes below 15%, the more chance you have of it not accepting the charge. I very well could be incorrect though

Rogus, the phone's charging system is set up to recognize 15% as the reserve tank, so to speak. It's related to the way a Lithium Ion Polymer battery's voltage decreases during use. All batteries have what's known as a discharge curve, essentially a plotting of the voltage of the battery at given time intervals while being used, a load as it is called (think of you carrying a 20 lb bag of potatoes as a load and the extra energy you would expend carrying it), in this case the load is the phone's cellular radios (1X, 3G, 4G)
, WIFI, Bluetooth, GPS, apps, etc.

A fully charged LIPO battery will have a voltage of somewhere between about 3.9 and 4.2 Volts, depending on how recent charging was completed (voltage will drop slowly after completion of charge as the battery balances itself out). While being used the voltage will also drop but LIPO batteries don't decrease in voltage at an even rate through it's discharge cycle. It's the three unique curves (rates of decrease) that indicate the battery is in the top 20%, middle 60%, our bottom 20% of usable capacity. The top and bottom portions see increased voltage level change during discharge whereas the middle 60% displays a slower, more gradual voltage decrease with the same load.

It's the middle section that causes the meter to become confused about the charge levels since even though current is being used up, the voltages aren't dropping as quickly as they do in the top and bottom ranges. So the meter uses the sudden increase in voltage drops that happen within the last 20% of usable charge to determine when the battery is approaching complete discharge, and at 15% of usable capacity is when the meter sets the low battery flag.

And yes, jackiescivic, there is risk of the battery becoming unresponsive at levels approaching 0% of usable capacity, but those risks are minimal if the meter is calibrated properly. However, those whose phones have become unresponsive after a discharge to 0% of usable capacity were victims of the meter errors I've tried so hard to help everyone understand how to avoid.

Sent from my DROID RAZR MAXX using Xparent ICS Tapatalk 2 using Google voice to text translation. Please excuse any minor spelling, punctuation, capitalization or grammatical errors.

[cereal killer]

moved to new forum