OverClocking 101

[pc747]

nvrmd allready done.

[Skull One]

Skull - based on what I just read, let me ask a question...

Let's say the batteries in our Droids are designed to last 3 years. I've always had a hesitancy in the back of my head when I'm overclocking that no matter what, if I'm overclocking, it's reducing that 3 years by some formula, and that if I'd just stick with what the phone was designed for, I should get my battery to last 3 years.

It sounds like you're saying that if I can find the perfect balance, I can actually get better cpu performance, and still keep (or even improve?) that 3 year time-frame. Is that a correct take on what you wrote?

Thanks again, great stuff.

Lithium-Ion batteries work the same if we clock at 1mhz or 100000mhz. The two main issues are heat and deep cycle discharge. Keep the battery between 120F to 140F and you will shorten the life. Take the charge from 100% down to 5% repeatedly and it will shorten the life. I recharge at 40% or every 24 hours, which ever comes first even if the charge level is 80%. Odds are I will get two years out of this battery based on my usage. Three years, with the current technology, is simply expecting too much in my opinion. Now if you can keep the battery below 90F, never let it discharge below 70% every 24 hours then you might get 3 years. But odds are, you will replace the phone before you can find out if the battery will last that long

[pc747]

THe way to get the best charge out of a battery is drain it completely, but you will need another battery to do it with the droid. Because you would have to either keep turning it on/off until it does not come on anymore. Or take the batter out and hook jumper (I dont mean car jumper cables) from the battery to a lil light bulb and wait until the bulb dies. People do not have that kind of time unless they have a spare battery.

[jntdroid]

Skull - based on what I just read, let me ask a question...

Let's say the batteries in our Droids are designed to last 3 years. I've always had a hesitancy in the back of my head when I'm overclocking that no matter what, if I'm overclocking, it's reducing that 3 years by some formula, and that if I'd just stick with what the phone was designed for, I should get my battery to last 3 years.

It sounds like you're saying that if I can find the perfect balance, I can actually get better cpu performance, and still keep (or even improve?) that 3 year time-frame. Is that a correct take on what you wrote?

Thanks again, great stuff.

Lithium-Ion batteries work the same if we clock at 1mhz or 100000mhz. The two main issues are heat and deep cycle discharge. Keep the battery between 120F to 140F and you will shorten the life. Take the charge from 100% down to 5% repeatedly and it will shorten the life. I recharge at 40% or every 24 hours, which ever comes first even if the charge level is 80%. Odds are I will get two years out of this battery based on my usage. Three years, with the current technology, is simply expecting too much in my opinion. Now if you can keep the battery below 90F, never let it discharge below 70% every 24 hours then you might get 3 years. But odds are, you will replace the phone before you can find out if the battery will last that long

Well, 3 years was just for sake of the hypothetical, not really realistic. So, basically you're saying that overclocking doesn't necessarily shorten the life, it's the heat generated by overclocking that shortens it (and the deep discharge). Therefore, if we can find that perfect balance when we overclock, and not deep-discharge often, it is feasible to overclock and not shorten the overall battery life, correct? (sorry, I have to restate points to make sure I understand them if they're originally over my head )

So what pilot mentioned, I've heard that often with lithium ion batteries - I'm assuming that's just supposed to be either rarely or only when we first get the battery.

[Skull One]

Good summary.

I would not do a full discharge like that but maybe once every 60 or so short cycle charges.

[Taegost]

Oh yeah, I had a wicked "duh" moment the other day when I was upgrading my kernel that you may want to mention...
Never install a new kernel when you're low on battery (Most people recommend you have at least 40% battery left). I did it when it said I had 20% left... and it didn't take well. I had to plug it in, recover from my Nandroid backup, and then reflash it again.

[RallyLegacy]

Skull - based on what I just read, let me ask a question...

Let's say the batteries in our Droids are designed to last 3 years. I've always had a hesitancy in the back of my head when I'm overclocking that no matter what, if I'm overclocking, it's reducing that 3 years by some formula, and that if I'd just stick with what the phone was designed for, I should get my battery to last 3 years.

Thanks again, great stuff.

Question, why do you need the battery to last 3 years anyway? OEM Motorola batteries can be had on ebay for ~$10, so replacing one every year or even every 6 months if you really want to is a non-issue. The phone will run better OC'ed, and if you don't have the battery capacity you want, just replace it.

THe way to get the best charge out of a battery is drain it completely, but you will need another battery to do it with the droid. Because you would have to either keep turning it on/off until it does not come on anymore. Or take the batter out and hook jumper (I dont mean car jumper cables) from the battery to a lil light bulb and wait until the bulb dies. People do not have that kind of time unless they have a spare battery.

That is as far from the truth as possible with Li-Ion technology. That was true with NiCad battery because they had memory issues but not Li-Ion batteries. For the best life you never what to fully charge the battery or fully discharge it. The only reason to deep cycle is to re-calibrate the power management unit so that the percentage battery life remaining is accurate. That is why it is advised to do that on a new battery (I believe) and every so often, but not as a regular thing. Li-Ion batteries are rated on the number of cycles before they lose capacity. A cycle is typically a full discharge and then a full recharge. The less of these you can do, the longer your battery will last.

This article from Tesla Motors is a very good read on maximizing battery life (as applied to the Tesla Roadster). Tesla Motors - Leadership

[J*Bishop]

just the type of thread i was looking for. thanks!

[jntdroid]

Skull - based on what I just read, let me ask a question...

Let's say the batteries in our Droids are designed to last 3 years. I've always had a hesitancy in the back of my head when I'm overclocking that no matter what, if I'm overclocking, it's reducing that 3 years by some formula, and that if I'd just stick with what the phone was designed for, I should get my battery to last 3 years.

Thanks again, great stuff.

Question, why do you need the battery to last 3 years anyway? OEM Motorola batteries can be had on ebay for ~$10, so replacing one every year or even every 6 months if you really want to is a non-issue. The phone will run better OC'ed, and if you don't have the battery capacity you want, just replace it.

THe way to get the best charge out of a battery is drain it completely, but you will need another battery to do it with the droid. Because you would have to either keep turning it on/off until it does not come on anymore. Or take the batter out and hook jumper (I dont mean car jumper cables) from the battery to a lil light bulb and wait until the bulb dies. People do not have that kind of time unless they have a spare battery.

That is as far from the truth as possible with Li-Ion technology. That was true with NiCad battery because they had memory issues but not Li-Ion batteries. For the best life you never what to fully charge the battery or fully discharge it. The only reason to deep cycle is to re-calibrate the power management unit so that the percentage battery life remaining is accurate. That is why it is advised to do that on a new battery (I believe) and every so often, but not as a regular thing. Li-Ion batteries are rated on the number of cycles before they lose capacity. A cycle is typically a full discharge and then a full recharge. The less of these you can do, the longer your battery will last.

This article from Tesla Motors is a very good read on maximizing battery life (as applied to the Tesla Roadster). Tesla Motors - Leadership

the 3 years was just a random timeframe i chose to ask my question, and yes you bring up a good point about batteries being a cheap commodity... however, the bigger issue is burning up the things AROUND the battery, not the battery itself

[Skull One]

That is as far from the truth as possible with Li-Ion technology. That was true with NiCad battery because they had memory issues but not Li-Ion batteries. For the best life you never what to fully charge the battery or fully discharge it. The only reason to deep cycle is to re-calibrate the power management unit so that the percentage battery life remaining is accurate. That is why it is advised to do that on a new battery (I believe) and every so often, but not as a regular thing. Li-Ion batteries are rated on the number of cycles before they lose capacity. A cycle is typically a full discharge and then a full recharge. The less of these you can do, the longer your battery will last.

This article from Tesla Motors is a very good read on maximizing battery life (as applied to the Tesla Roadster). Tesla Motors - Leadership

I don't even need to read that article to know what you are basing your statement on. Lithium-Ion batteries do not form a memory. That is 100% fact. BUT industrial grade batteries, like the ones used by Tesla, require a slightly different set of rules than the commercial battery used in cell phones.

Industrial grade batteries don't have built in protection chips like the commercial ones we use. Their charge cycle, top end voltage and low end voltage are a little different because of the life span they need to achieve due to their costs. Commercial Lithium-Ion batteries are set, by the battery not the device, to charge to 4200 micro-volts and discharge down to around 3000 micro-volts (some risk going lower). If you exceed either limit, the battery itself can go into a protected state and shut off. Doesn't matter what you do, the battery won't work till you hook it up to a device that resets the protection protocols of the battery.

A lithium-ion battery does actually last longer if you short cycle charge it. But, there is always a but, the protection circuit has a section devoted to relaying to the device the predicted discharge rate. So if you fast discharge a cell phone battery enough time, it memorizes that rate. Even if you put the phone in standby mode and don't touch it for a day. How do you get around that? You do a deep discharge and then a full recharge in one cycle. It should wipe the pattern from the circuit.

Now here is where it gets very interesting for me. I am not 100% convinced that the Motorola Droid uses the batteries on board drain profile. I have found a file that I believe contains similar data and is used by the Android OS. I just haven't had the time to research it properly because of another project I am working on. I hope to get back to this drain profile file in the near future.