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Thread: Droid running without battery!

  1. Master Droid
    Skull One's Avatar
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by freezyfreaky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kptphalkon View Post
    Useless?

    I want to do it for the same reason I run laptops without a battery:

    Battery will not get hot, suffer from staying charged, or lose capacity.
    Lithium Ion batteries do not lose capacity due to being charged.

    Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums App
    This is not true. This is from wikipedia:

    Charging forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport. Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes. The increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The decrease means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones (charging time required decreases proportionally).

    High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss. Charging heat is caused by the carbon anode (typically replaced with lithium titanate which drastically reduces damage from charging, including expansion and other factors).
    Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Dear God,

    Please kill Wikipedia so the human race doesn't get any dumber because of it.

    Amen


    Lets put this to bed right now. The charging anode must reach a particular set of conditions to cause oxidation. Temp, current and charge level have to be above certain limits. First and foremost, you have to get the charge above 4.2V. Go read the voltage on a phone when it hits 100% charge they read between 4.0V and 4.1V.

    Now why do they do this you ask? Because they know people are going to leave the phones on the charger overnight and they don't want to deal with warranty claims.

    So lets Cliff Note this one:
    Three things have to come into play to cause oxidation on the anode.
    Cell phones quit charging below the 4.2V threshold.
    Phone makers don't want to lose money.
    Facts are the very first casuality of bad information.
  2. Master Droid
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Skull One View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by freezyfreaky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XanRules View Post

    Lithium Ion batteries do not lose capacity due to being charged.

    Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums App
    This is not true. This is from wikipedia:

    Charging forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport. Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes. The increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The decrease means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones (charging time required decreases proportionally).

    High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss. Charging heat is caused by the carbon anode (typically replaced with lithium titanate which drastically reduces damage from charging, including expansion and other factors).
    Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Dear God,

    Please kill Wikipedia so the human race doesn't get any dumber because of it.

    Amen


    Lets put this to bed right now. The charging anode must reach a particular set of conditions to cause oxidation. Temp, current and charge level have to be above certain limits. First and foremost, you have to get the charge above 4.2V. Go read the voltage on a phone when it hits 100% charge they read between 4.0V and 4.1V.

    Now why do they do this you ask? Because they know people are going to leave the phones on the charger overnight and they don't want to deal with warranty claims.

    So lets Cliff Note this one:
    Three things have to come into play to cause oxidation on the anode.
    Cell phones quit charging below the 4.2V threshold.
    Phone makers don't want to lose money.
    Thank you for the information, may I ask where you got it?


    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
  3. Master Droid
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sonicfreak360 View Post
    Thank you for the information, may I ask where you got it?


    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
    Clipped the following from this page: Charging lithium-ion batteries

    Their information comes straight from battery manufacturers. I can confirm this because I have read the physical documents. And the text here matches up with what I have read.

    Overcharging Lithium-ion

    Lithium-ion operates safely within the designated operating voltages; however, the battery becomes unstable if inadvertently charged to a higher than specified voltage. Prolonged charging above 4.30V forms plating of metallic lithium on the anode, while the cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and produces carbon dioxide (CO2). The cell pressure rises, and if charging is allowed to continue the current interrupt device (CID) responsible for cell safety disconnects the current at 1,380kPa (200psi).





    And yes I am aware it says 4.3V. I generally don't use that number because must people are only aware of the 4.2V rating of the typical commercial batteries available to consumers. It helps keep the discussion on topic.
    Facts are the very first casuality of bad information.
  4. Droid Ninja
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    #24
    Batteries are classed either as primary cells, which are thrown away once their reactants are consumed, or secondary cells, which may be recharged, usually many hundreds of times, before their performance becomes seriously degraded. Lithium primaries have been available commercially since the early 1970s, but successful secondary cells are much more recent.

    "Mcgraw Hill"

    All i could find. if we were going to get in a citing war, then id like to show whos boss. unfortunatly, mcgraw hill is either for scientists or 3rd graders...
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  5. Master Droid
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Skull One View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by freezyfreaky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XanRules View Post

    Lithium Ion batteries do not lose capacity due to being charged.

    Sent from my DROID2 using DroidForums App
    This is not true. This is from wikipedia:

    Charging forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport. Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes. The increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The decrease means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones (charging time required decreases proportionally).

    High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss. Charging heat is caused by the carbon anode (typically replaced with lithium titanate which drastically reduces damage from charging, including expansion and other factors).
    Lithium-ion battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Dear God,

    Please kill Wikipedia so the human race doesn't get any dumber because of it.

    Amen


    Lets put this to bed right now. The charging anode must reach a particular set of conditions to cause oxidation. Temp, current and charge level have to be above certain limits. First and foremost, you have to get the charge above 4.2V. Go read the voltage on a phone when it hits 100% charge they read between 4.0V and 4.1V.

    Now why do they do this you ask? Because they know people are going to leave the phones on the charger overnight and they don't want to deal with warranty claims.

    So lets Cliff Note this one:
    Three things have to come into play to cause oxidation on the anode.
    Cell phones quit charging below the 4.2V threshold.
    Phone makers don't want to lose money.
    Dear Sweet Baby Jesus,

    I know Our Father, who art thou in Heaven, hallowed be thy Name, is busy fulfilling Skull One's request to smite Wikipedia into a pillar of salt and all that, so I beseech thee to save Skull One from having an aneurysm because I quoted Wikipedia.

    Your humble disciple,

    freezyfreaky
  6. Droid Ninja
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    #26
    you guys keep distracting God, hes got bigger fish to fry right now!
  7. Master Droid
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    #27
    All joking aside, I understand what you are saying that oxidation requires certain levels to occur. Still not every charger is the same and not every person will be using the OEM charger. Maybe the safer answer maybe to do what you do and check the voltage level of the battery at full charge on a particular charger and adjusting accordingly.

    Also, was reading the link you posted (great link by the way), and read another page on that same site regarding charging lithium batteries: Charging lithium-ion batteries

    It talks about after charging, battery voltage begins to drop and settle between 3.60 and 3.90V/cell to ease voltage stress. Could leaving the battery on the charger getting topped off periodically to keep the battery full charge at 4.0-4.1V still effect the lifespan of the battery? Or is this voltage stress negligible?
  8. Master Droid
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    #28
    As the article states, as long as the charging state stays below 4.2 you can not cause oxidation which is the needed component to plate the anode.
    Facts are the very first casuality of bad information.
  9. Droid Sensei
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by doublea500 View Post
    Edit: my droid can only run when connected to an outlet, not my computer. probably not enough voltage to power the droid.
    The voltage supplied to your device doesn't change from USB charging to wall charging. The current does.
  10. Droid Ninja
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by takeshi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by doublea500 View Post
    Edit: my droid can only run when connected to an outlet, not my computer. probably not enough voltage to power the droid.
    The voltage supplied to your device doesn't change from USB charging to wall charging. The current does.
    wouldnt both be changing? because V=IR and the droid is the resistor that stays constant. now if the I goes up/down then the V would have to go up and down as well. Doin this in physics

    Thinking about it again-your right... its parallel circuit and V is constant throughout. i guess the computer adds resistance causing a decrease in current.
    Droid 1

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