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Thread: 1% battery increments... am I the only one...

  1. Master Droid
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    #11
    Thanks again FoxKat, I really enjoy these discussions as it was my "bread and butter" for many years. When I was involved in the intersevice calibration (PMEL) school in Colorado during the 80's, we spent what most would think an exorbitant amount of time teaching the definitions of precision, accuracy, and resolution and thoroughly tested the student's understanding. You use great analogies, that are easy to understand. Of course, we used to use groupings of bullets on a target!!
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    #12
    WOW! Thanks for the complement. Bullets on a target are a great analogy as well. Resolution is probably the most widely misunderstood of all. Since it involves not only pixel density, but also pixel pitch, viewing distance, grid design (i.e. RGB Stripe/RGBG Pentile/RGBW Pentile, Diagonal OLPC, etc.), grid layout (i.e. parallel matrix, triad grouping), screen mask, screen dimension, and so much more.

    I have to laugh every time I hear about the "Retina Display" on the iPhone, because it's been proven to be insufficient a resolution to qualify as "Retina" in resolution for those with perfect near-sighted vision. But what's even funnier is that at the typical viewing distance I use my Droid RAZR, mostly at near arm's length (aging eyes), I don't see any of the pixel definition that I read about people complaining of - "looking through a screen". If I put on a pair of 2X or 2.5X reading glasses and hold the phone less than a foot away, then I can see them, but that's not practical, so for me there's no appreciable difference between my Droid RAZR MAXX and my boss's iPhone 4S in apparent resolution.
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    "Professor FoxKat"
    "Saving DROID Razr's, one battery at a time. :-)" - (credit SallyC)
    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
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  3. Master Droid
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    WOW! Thanks for the complement. Bullets on a target are a great analogy as well. Resolution is probably the most widely misunderstood of all. Since it involves not only pixel density, but also pixel pitch, viewing distance, grid design (i.e. RGB Stripe/RGBG Pentile/RGBW Pentile, Diagonal OLPC, etc.), grid layout (i.e. parallel matrix, triad grouping), screen mask, screen dimension, and so much more.

    I have to laugh every time I hear about the "Retina Display" on the iPhone, because it's been proven to be insufficient a resolution to qualify as "Retina" in resolution for those with perfect near-sighted vision. But what's even funnier is that at the typical viewing distance I use my Droid RAZR, mostly at near arm's length (aging eyes), I don't see any of the pixel definition that I read about people complaining of - "looking through a screen". If I put on a pair of 2X or 2.5X reading glasses and hold the phone less than a foot away, then I can see them, but that's not practical, so for me there's no appreciable difference between my Droid RAZR MAXX and my boss's iPhone 4S in apparent resolution.
    Sorry, when I threw the term resolution out there, I was referring to readouts (ie. voltage). Another concept we had to make sure our people understood was exactly this. Take a voltmeter with a 5 1/2 digit display. When adjusting a circuit for 1 VDC, you could get the display to read 1.00000 VDC, leading you to believe you had made a very accurate adjustment. Actually, you made a very precise adjustment, because your reading was resolved to 10 uVDC (least significant digit = 0.00001 VDC). However if the cumulative error of your measurement (accuracy) was +/- 1 mVDC, then all you could certify was that you had adjusted the circuitry to 1 VDC +/- 1mVDC. So the actual voltage you adjusted to such a precise reading lays somewhere between 0.99900 and 1.00100 VDC. Seems simple, but many people had trouble grasping this concept. I am going back over 18 yrs, but I worked in calibration for over 20, and still have a bit of synaptic process left in this area, although as short lived at times as Edison's early attempts at light!

    Sorry, I should have specified that you took 3 readings all measuring 1.00000 VDC after the adjustment. This makes the reading precise (repeatability). Maybe those cells ain't firing so good!
    Last edited by jaybogg; 08-07-2012 at 08:23 PM. Reason: clarify "precise"
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jaybogg View Post
    Sorry, when I threw the term resolution out there, I was referring to readouts (ie. voltage). Another concept we had to make sure our people understood was exactly this. Take a voltmeter with a 5 1/2 digit display. When adjusting a circuit for 1 VDC, you could get the display to read 1.00000 VDC, leading you to believe you had made a very accurate adjustment. Actually, you made a very precise adjustment, because your reading was resolved to 10 uVDC (least significant digit = 0.00001 VDC). However if the cumulative error of your measurement (accuracy) was +/- 1 mVDC, then all you could certify was that you had adjusted the circuitry to 1 VDC +/- 1mVDC. So the actual voltage you adjusted to such a precise reading lays somewhere between 0.99900 and 1.00100 VDC. Seems simple, but many people had trouble grasping this concept. I am going back over 18 yrs, but I worked in calibration for over 20, and still have a bit of synaptic process left in this area, although as short lived at times as Edison's early attempts at light!
    And HEY, I knew what you were saying...but most don't think of resolution as the ranges or precision on a digital or analog volt meter. Also it's quite obvious with the post I made a couple hours ago where;


    "In the case of the iPad, a 10 percent discrepancy between fuel gauge and true battery SoC is acceptable for consumer products. The accuracy will likely drop further with use, and depending on the effectiveness of a self-learning algorithm, battery aging can add another 20-30 percent to the error."


    This means a 1% precision is overridden by as much as from 10% to 40%, or a reading of let's say 53% battery level can be off by as much as 43 points or it could be 10% or 96% in all actuality. Knowing that, what is the benefit of having a 1% precision? None for practical purposes.
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    "Professor FoxKat"
    "Saving DROID Razr's, one battery at a time. :-)" - (credit SallyC)
    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
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  5. Master Droid
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    #15
    FoxKat, Just saw this in the Matt's Utility 1.8 thread post #132. Might be a new way to bring up "dead" razrs. No, I'm not killing mine a 3rd time to try it out but thought it was interesting!
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    #16
    Yeah Jay, I saw that one, and also another variation on the same, both can "trick" the phone into charging a battery that's marginally low. It will work sometimes, but only if the battery is just under the boot minimum thresholds. If the battery is much lower, it will fail every time.

    Still, it's good to keep it in the queue. I'll have to dig up the other one from here as well. I have posted them both in several threads for battery problems. Thanks for reviving that one.

    I also created a variation on the two methods that worked as well.

    "Professor FoxKat"
    "Saving DROID Razr's, one battery at a time. :-)" - (credit SallyC)
    Avatar is Maxwell Smart, AKA Agent 86, from "Get Smart" (with his signature "Shoe Phone"), a SitCom TV series by Mel Brooks & Buck Henry, based on the spy thriller series, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.".
    "Guidelines of Conduct" for DroidForums.net
  7. Master Droid
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    Yeah Jay, I saw that one, and also another variation on the same, both can "trick" the phone into charging a battery that's marginally low. It will work sometimes, but only if the battery is just under the boot minimum thresholds. If the battery is much lower, it will fail every time.

    Still, it's good to keep it in the queue. I'll have to dig up the other one from here as well. I have posted them both in several threads for battery problems. Thanks for reviving that one.

    I also created a variation on the two methods that worked as well.
    Yeah, when I woke up this morn, it hit me like a ton of bricks. In my 2 experiences (with white light), there wasn't enough juice left to bring up any displays, even with a charger connected. I even discussed previously about how when the phone started to take a charge and the white light goes out, even trying to bring up the battery display was enough to bring the white light back.

    Don't know what I was thinking. Probably just wishful thinking that this method could save someone the long and anxious process of trying to recover once the white light comes on. The description given in the thread I referenced is obviously missing any mention of the white light which reinforces what you said about being "marginally charged". I now see this is a charging method for a phone that has not reached the low battery level of "white light" status yet.
    Last edited by jaybogg; 08-08-2012 at 06:17 AM. Reason: clarification
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