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Thread: Droid 4 Battery Swelling

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by bweN diorD View Post
    if its "always on the charger when im not using it", that constant cycling is whats likely causing the battery to swell.
    im sure FoxKat will insert a technical explanation for this later
    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbikermark View Post
    Actually yes, that is over charging it.
    http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries

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    Yes, they're both correct - topping off of the battery does accelerate the aging process, and will dramatically shorten the battery's life. Since swelling is a common part of the aging process, swelling would occur sooner as well.

    The less time the battery sits between 90% & 100%, as well as between 10% & 0% the longer it will last. If you push those ranges even farther, (80% to 100% & 20% to 0%), you'll increase the battery's lifespan up to 4-fold or better.

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    Last edited by FoxKat; 07-21-2013 at 10:51 AM.

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    Yes, they're both correct - topping off of the battery does accelerate the aging process, and will dramatically shorten the battery's life. Since swelling is a common part of the aging process, swelling would occur sooner as well.

    The less time the battery sits between 90% & 100%, as well as between 10% & 0% the longer it will last. If you push those ranges even farther, (80% to 100% & 20% to 0%), you'll increase the battery's lifespan up to 4-fold or better.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    So charging between say 20%-80% is the ideal range to get the longest overall battery life? It's early for me right now, my brain is still waking up:P
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    #13
    There is another possibility I did see mentioned, (I could have missed it). I don't know how much amperage/voltage your original charger was supposed to provide to the phone but the wall chargers are supposed to adjust for both the voltage and amperage depending on what is plugged in to them.

    I have one charger that outputs 15v @ 2 Amps. The standard voltage is 5v DC. But I can plug a 5v device into it and the circuit in the charger understands. If the charger was bad or wasn't correctly sensing the circuit in the phone it could be destroying the batteries.

    In short, if my 15v charger malfunctioned I could see it being a serious problem with my 5v devices.

    Or it could be, as stated so well previously, a crappy battery.
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dezymond View Post
    So charging between say 20%-80% is the ideal range to get the longest overall battery life? It's early for me right now, my brain is still waking up:P
    Yes, the expected lifespan of a battery under typical usage/charging patterns (when it will no longer hold a charge that's at least 80% of rated capacity), is 500 complete charge/discharge cycles, where a complete cycle is the charging and discharging of 100% of the battery's capacity. So if you charge to 100%, use to 50%, charge to 100% and use to 50%, you have completed 1 (not 2), complete 100% charge/discharge cycle.

    So for the typical user, that battery should last about 1.5 to 2 years before it will only hold about 80% of its rated capacity. If you charge as you indicated, staying between 20% and 80%, you could extend that to 2,500 cycles! Now there are other limits - namely the "shelf-life" of the batteries, which is between 3 and 4 years typically, so even if you charged and discharged in that 60% range, you may never actually get 2,500 cycles since time continues ticking away no matter what your charging and discharging practices are.

    Then there's the "effective" lifespan - where the battery has served its intended purpose and the PHONE is no longer a viable device when compared to newer devices of that time. What does this mean? It means you probably will replace the phone LONG before the battery reaches the 80% capacity limit if charging in the 60% range. Truth is, you may even replace the phone before 1.5 years, so the expected lifespan of 500 cycles works relatively well for most people.

    What it will do for you though, is provide longer run-times during that 1.5 years or so, but it also means you'll be plugging into the wall more often. For me, that's not a problem since I have a car Navigation Dock and a Desktop Dock, so when I'm not carrying the phone, it sits in one or the other, giving it frequent "boost" charges. This is the preferred method of charging for this battery's chemistry, and will result in the longest lasting battery.
    Last edited by FoxKat; 07-21-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    Yes, the expected lifespan of a battery under typical usage/charging patterns is 500 complete charge/discharge cycles, where a complete cycle is the charging and discharging of 100% of the battery's capacity. So if you charge to 100%, use to 50%, charge to 100% and use to 50%, you have completed 1 (not 2), complete 100% charge/discharge cycle.

    So for the typical user, that battery should last about 1.5 to 2 years before it will only hold about 80% of its rated capacity. If you charge as you indicated, staying between 20% and 80%, you could extend that to 2,500 cycles!
    Wow I didn't realize charging between certain percentages would have such a significant increase on the amount of cycles a battery can go through. I usually charge from 60-70% to full in the middle of the day, so I guess I've been doing it right all along.
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by leeshor View Post
    There is another possibility I did see mentioned, (I could have missed it). I don't know how much amperage/voltage your original charger was supposed to provide to the phone but the wall chargers are supposed to adjust for both the voltage and amperage depending on what is plugged in to them.

    I have one charger that outputs 15v @ 2 Amps. The standard voltage is 5v DC. But I can plug a 5v device into it and the circuit in the charger understands. If the charger was bad or wasn't correctly sensing the circuit in the phone it could be destroying the batteries.

    In short, if my 15v charger malfunctioned I could see it being a serious problem with my 5v devices.

    Or it could be, as stated so well previously, a crappy battery.
    leeshor, what charger is that which has the auto-sensing voltage regulator? I'm curious and would like to do some research.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    leeshor, what charger is that which has the auto-sensing voltage regulator? I'm curious and would like to do some research.
    It's an ASUS Transformer charger. The Transformers charge very quickly at 15v 2.0 A and last forever.
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by FoxKat View Post
    leeshor, what charger is that which has the auto-sensing voltage regulator? I'm curious and would like to do some research.
    i was thinking exactly the same thing.
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dezymond View Post
    Wow I didn't realize charging between certain percentages would have such a significant increase on the amount of cycles a battery can go through. I usually charge from 60-70% to full in the middle of the day, so I guess I've been doing it right all along.
    Actually no. To increase the longevity if battery health, charging above 80% is not optimal or is letting it get below 20%. If you're only using about 40% of your battery each day (if I'm reading what you wrote correctly) for optimal battery health and longevity, let it drop to 30-40% and only let it get to about 80%, then remove from the charger. Never charge a battery that has more than 85% left. You may remember the "bump charge" method described for getting the most from HTC phones. It was where you charged until green, shut off the phone, charged again until green, powered phone back up, remove from charger. HTC phones read 100% when they're actually between 95-98% , thus the sudden drop after unplug, and bump charging, while giving the extra charge to 100% causes harm to the battery that dramatically reduce its overall health and longevity.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbikermark View Post
    Actually no. To increase the longevity if battery health, charging above 80% is not optimal or is letting it get below 20%. If you're only using about 40% of your battery each day (if I'm reading what you wrote correctly) for optimal battery health and longevity, let it drop to 30-40% and only let it get to about 80%, then remove from the charger. Never charge a battery that has more than 85% left. You may remember the "bump charge" method described for getting the most from HTC phones. It was where you charged until green, shut off the phone, charged again until green, powered phone back up, remove from charger. HTC phones read 100% when they're actually between 95-98% , thus the sudden drop after unplug, and bump charging, while giving the extra charge to 100% causes harm to the battery that dramatically reduce its overall health and longevity.

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    Yeah I haven't done the bump charge method since I got rid of my Dinc.

    What I normally do is I leave the house with 100% battery and when I come back a few hours later I'm down to roughly 60-70% battery life, usually. I then charge it to full again and don't charge it the rest of the day as it lasts me the rest of the day and don't charge until the next morning when I'm hovering around 40-50%.

    So I use about 40% of my batter for half a day, and then 40% or so for the other half of the day + overnight. Overnight I only lose maybe 5% at most so I don't charge it before I go to bed. Wake up then charge it to full and then start my little charging routine over again.
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