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Thread: [Updated] Verizon Plans To Eliminate 'Grandfathered' 3G Unlimited Data Plans

  1. Master Droid
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    Quote Originally Posted by huskur View Post
    Whether they are separate entities or not they still have to face change. Face it.....land lines are dinosaurs and on their way to extinction. You can't compete if no one wants/needs your product.
    I understand that. I was just saying that if Verizon Wireless and Verizon regular are separate then if ones losing money the other isn't necessarily. One has no affect on the others bottom line.
  2. Master Droid
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    What I find quite interesting is that everyone gets so upset about having to pay for tiered data, or having to pay a $30 "upgrade" fee - but no one is concerned about the HUGE amount we pay each month for "hardware subsidy" - whether or not there's anything being subsidized.

    It's no secret that when you sign a new 2 year agreement you can get a phone for a "subsidized" price which is several hundred dollars less than if you were to buy that same phone outright. We all then pay an extra amount each month (at least $10 - $15 per month, maybe more?) to offset that initial discount. We all know they're not actually GIVING us a $300 discount on that phone - Verizon is just loaning us the money up front, then we pay it back each month.

    But after our 20 month "subsidy" period is over (and especially after our 24 month contract is up) does our monthly service go down by $15/month? Why not? Or if I buy a phone somewhere else at retail and activate it with Verizon, why do I still have to pay a monthly hardware "subsidy"? Isn't Verizon making tons of extra money on all those people who are out of contract or who bought their phones outright?

    Verizon gives you two choices:

    1) lock yourself in to our services for another 2 years and we'll loan you money to buy a new phone. or,
    2) decide you don't want to be locked in, don't buy a new phone, and let Verizon make a HUGE profit margin on your monthly service.

    Verizon (and just about every other major carrier) win no matter which you choose.

    I just don't understand why people don't get more upset about THAT.
    Last edited by TatDroid; 05-23-2012 at 07:33 AM.
    StormyHeather likes this.
  3. Droid
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    Quote Originally Posted by TatDroid
    What I find quite interesting is that everyone gets so upset about having to pay for tiered data, or having to pay a $30 "upgrade" fee - but no one is concerned about the HUGE amount we pay each month for "hardware subsidy" - whether or not there's anything being subsidized.

    It's no secret that when you sign a new 2 year agreement you can get a phone for a "subsidized" price which is several hundred dollars less than if you were to buy that same phone outright. We all then pay an extra amount each month (at least $10 - $15 per month, maybe more?) to offset that initial discount. We all know they're not actually GIVING us a $300 discount on that phone - Verizon is just loaning us the money up front, then we pay it back each month.

    But after our 20 month "subsidy" period is over (and especially after our 24 month contract is up) does our monthly service go down by $15/month? Why not? Or if I buy a phone somewhere else at retail and activate it with Verizon, why do I still have to pay a monthly hardware "subsidy"? Isn't Verizon making tons of extra money on all those people who are out of contract or who bought their phones outright?

    Verizon gives you two choices:

    1) lock yourself in to our services for another 2 years and we'll loan you money to buy a new phone. or,
    2) decide you don't want to be locked in, don't buy a new phone, and let Verizon make a HUGE profit margin on your monthly service.

    Verizon (and just about every other major carrier) win no matter which you choose.

    I just don't understand why people don't get more upset about THAT.
    Very interesting point TatDroid. Its never been a factor for me before because I've always upgraded at the 20 month mark. Now, it may be a major factor if I want to try and maintain unlimited data.

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Droid Forums
  4. Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by TatDroid View Post
    What I find quite interesting is that everyone gets so upset about having to pay for tiered data, or having to pay a $30 "upgrade" fee - but no one is concerned about the HUGE amount we pay each month for "hardware subsidy" - whether or not there's anything being subsidized.

    It's no secret that when you sign a new 2 year agreement you can get a phone for a "subsidized" price which is several hundred dollars less than if you were to buy that same phone outright. We all then pay an extra amount each month (at least $10 - $15 per month, maybe more?) to offset that initial discount. We all know they're not actually GIVING us a $300 discount on that phone - Verizon is just loaning us the money up front, then we pay it back each month.

    But after our 20 month "subsidy" period is over (and especially after our 24 month contract is up) does our monthly service go down by $15/month? Why not? Or if I buy a phone somewhere else at retail and activate it with Verizon, why do I still have to pay a monthly hardware "subsidy"? Isn't Verizon making tons of extra money on all those people who are out of contract or who bought their phones outright?

    Verizon gives you two choices:

    1) lock yourself in to our services for another 2 years and we'll loan you money to buy a new phone. or,
    2) decide you don't want to be locked in, don't buy a new phone, and let Verizon make a HUGE profit margin on your monthly service.

    Verizon (and just about every other major carrier) win no matter which you choose.

    I just don't understand why people don't get more upset about THAT.
    The only potential flaw I see in this (and I stress potential, but I actually have no clue, am only going off of what I have always assumed) is where you say:

    We all know they're not actually GIVING us a $300 discount on that phone
    Because, to be honest, no, I don't know if they are just giving us the discount or not... and they prefer it that way. I attribute this to an even bigger issue I have which is from basic economic theory.... supply and demand. Demand is something we can all get a good idea for by looking at their public records, subscription rates and general user data... but supply on the other - I don't think anyone outside of decision makers and engineers with Verizon knows what their "supply" of network capacity stands. Basic S&D says that when supply drops and/or demand increases, the price of product will increase in a free market. If they have direct control over who much supply they have (or how much they lead us to believe they have) does that really make this a free market structure? So to come full circle, without knowing how taxed their network is and what is driving the cost of the service I am receiving, there is no way to determine how much of a profit they are turning on my month-to-month bill. If it costs them 95% of what I pay to provide me with service as it is, then I could see it completely justifiable that a "guaranteed customer" for two more years in a very fluid market as enough of a payout for subsiding my equipment. If on the other hand they are pulling a 50% profit margin from me, and half of bill is to pay of my device, then I agree with you - that isn't right and needs to change. The problem is we (at least I) just don't know.
    If you always seem to have drama in your life, you are probably the one causing the drama.
    If customer service representatives or restaurant servers always seem to be rude to you, you are probably the one being rude.
    If your computer always seems to be freezing up on you, you're probably doing something wrong.

    In my experience, drama begets drama, rudeness begets rudeness, and ineptitude begets ineptitude.
  5. Master Droid
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    Quote Originally Posted by TatDroid View Post
    What I find quite interesting is that everyone gets so upset about having to pay for tiered data, or having to pay a $30 "upgrade" fee - but no one is concerned about the HUGE amount we pay each month for "hardware subsidy" - whether or not there's anything being subsidized.

    It's no secret that when you sign a new 2 year agreement you can get a phone for a "subsidized" price which is several hundred dollars less than if you were to buy that same phone outright. We all then pay an extra amount each month (at least $10 - $15 per month, maybe more?) to offset that initial discount. We all know they're not actually GIVING us a $300 discount on that phone - Verizon is just loaning us the money up front, then we pay it back each month.

    But after our 20 month "subsidy" period is over (and especially after our 24 month contract is up) does our monthly service go down by $15/month? Why not? Or if I buy a phone somewhere else at retail and activate it with Verizon, why do I still have to pay a monthly hardware "subsidy"? Isn't Verizon making tons of extra money on all those people who are out of contract or who bought their phones outright?

    Verizon gives you two choices:

    1) lock yourself in to our services for another 2 years and we'll loan you money to buy a new phone. or,
    2) decide you don't want to be locked in, don't buy a new phone, and let Verizon make a HUGE profit margin on your monthly service.

    Verizon (and just about every other major carrier) win no matter which you choose.

    I just don't understand why people don't get more upset about THAT.
    It is Business 101 / Marketing gimmick that "in order to make money you have spend money". It is no brainer that they rather give customers subsidized phones (I'm sure they worked out some kinks with phones manufactures to share the loss of subsidized phone), for they can soon sink in $2000 in yearly contract times 2 with some "fines and ability to take anyone to court when they are unable to fulfill their contract." That is the whole point of contracts really, to get you to faithfully pay them on time. That is Great Business when they could find some customers like me who never pay late for decades. At first, I don't mind whatever he said as it will only affect those with 3G to 4G only. I already have 4G phone, so I thought it wouldn't affect me. But what can you do when a company are going rampant about making profits? Sadly tho, Verizon change their stance by vaguely saying that you can only keep unlimited if you get full retail phone. It didn't mention about affecting 3G phone users only this time. It's not just about money personally, for I wouldn't choose Verizon when first thing on my mind is money. I am always looking for value and not getting nickel n dimed for every chance they get. It is just weird to me about the way our leaders speak about no censorships etc. Are they backtracking from it? By saying at the back of their minds, "Hell, we talked to soon about Internet censorships... now we sounded unconstitutional when we will bring censorships to US internet users to take care of MPAA/RIAA fiasco. How can we find the solution then? Oh yeah, let's limit they data users can use. Wow, that's sounded brilliant!" I agree with other users here that the one of the problems is about users changing their internet course by using their phone as modem. 4G Lte in some locations really is faster than most standard home internet in market. Verizon are known for their networks anyways... I decided to get into smartphones recently as I can use it more instead of carrying laptop wherever I go. I don't know if anyone brought this up. Recent Netflix update only allows users to watch videos via Wi-Fi only. This may sound cliche but when there is no "good faith" in relationship, then all there is to it is about one screwing the other.
  6. Master Droid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trusstopher View Post
    The only potential flaw I see in this (and I stress potential, but I actually have no clue, am only going off of what I have always assumed) is where you say:



    Because, to be honest, no, I don't know if they are just giving us the discount or not... and they prefer it that way. I attribute this to an even bigger issue I have which is from basic economic theory.... supply and demand. Demand is something we can all get a good idea for by looking at their public records, subscription rates and general user data... but supply on the other - I don't think anyone outside of decision makers and engineers with Verizon knows what their "supply" of network capacity stands. Basic S&D says that when supply drops and/or demand increases, the price of product will increase in a free market. If they have direct control over who much supply they have (or how much they lead us to believe they have) does that really make this a free market structure? So to come full circle, without knowing how taxed their network is and what is driving the cost of the service I am receiving, there is no way to determine how much of a profit they are turning on my month-to-month bill. If it costs them 95% of what I pay to provide me with service as it is, then I could see it completely justifiable that a "guaranteed customer" for two more years in a very fluid market as enough of a payout for subsiding my equipment. If on the other hand they are pulling a 50% profit margin from me, and half of bill is to pay of my device, then I agree with you - that isn't right and needs to change. The problem is we (at least I) just don't know.
    Hottttt Diggittyyy D**N!
  7. Droid Ninja
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    The whole idea behind an HTC Rezound being $600 actual price is ridiculous. The entire "subsidized phone" spiel is pure marketing crap.
    What did that one site say the cost of iPhone parts was? Like $140? And the retail price is $600?

    What I just don't get is that in pretty much every pother arena ion Tech prices go down. Things get cheaper as technology advances.
    Not so in the wireless world. You want us to be loyal customers... consume, human, consume.... but then try to limit what we can consume.
    I just don't get it.

    To Tatdroid's point, honestly I just don't quite get it.
    Where is this extra price? Why is it that if I pay full price I still pay the same as you every month.
    It's not like it's LISTED ON THE BILL. That's why people aren't upset about that.
    You sign up for a plan it is: xx.00 for a minutes plan + xx.00 for data + xx.00 for any extras.
    Doesn't matter if you purchase it outright or subsidized.
  8. Master Droid
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    Quote Originally Posted by PereDroid View Post
    The whole idea behind an HTC Rezound being $600 actual price is ridiculous. The entire "subsidized phone" spiel is pure marketing crap.
    What did that one site say the cost of iPhone parts was? Like $140? And the retail price is $600?

    What I just don't get is that in pretty much every pother arena ion Tech prices go down. Things get cheaper as technology advances.
    Not so in the wireless world. You want us to be loyal customers... consume, human, consume.... but then try to limit what we can consume.
    I just don't get it.

    To Tatdroid's point, honestly I just don't quite get it.
    Where is this extra price? Why is it that if I pay full price I still pay the same as you every month.
    It's not like it's LISTED ON THE BILL. That's why people aren't upset about that.
    You sign up for a plan it is: xx.00 for a minutes plan + xx.00 for data + xx.00 for any extras.
    Doesn't matter if you purchase it outright or subsidized.
    When I read this ... reminded me about users saying be quiet to other users for data hogging. Business are always try to gain 200-300% profits, and I wonder they would tell you to shush. For in a tougher economy, people's ears tend to open up more.

    hmmm I thought that extra price he mentioned was about the price disparity between phone carriers... I might be wrong tho ...
  9. Droid
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    Quote Originally Posted by PereDroid
    The whole idea behind an HTC Rezound being $600 actual price is ridiculous. The entire "subsidized phone" spiel is pure marketing crap.
    What did that one site say the cost of iPhone parts was? Like $140? And the retail price is $600?

    What I just don't get is that in pretty much every pother arena ion Tech prices go down. Things get cheaper as technology advances.
    Not so in the wireless world. You want us to be loyal customers... consume, human, consume.... but then try to limit what we can consume.
    I just don't get it.

    To Tatdroid's point, honestly I just don't quite get it.
    Where is this extra price? Why is it that if I pay full price I still pay the same as you every month.
    It's not like it's LISTED ON THE BILL. That's why people aren't upset about that.
    You sign up for a plan it is: xx.00 for a minutes plan + xx.00 for data + xx.00 for any extras.
    Doesn't matter if you purchase it outright or subsidized.
    No, it is not "listed on the bill." You do pay for it though. Carriers subsidize the purchase of your phone to get you on contract. The contract price includes them making up their subsidy plus a profit on the sale.

    Smarphones are just plain expensive. If someone could undercut the retail price on top of the line smartphones then they would.

    The problem with smartphone technology compared with some other products is that smartphones are really still in their infancy. The improvements we all love and want cost money to develop and implement. Until things level off, top of the line smartphones are going to be expensive. You can pay retail or you can feel better about the price and have a carrier subsidize it. You will pay for the advances either way.

    I still think TatDroid makes an excellent point about the contract price. If you're not subsidizing the cost of my phone then why should I pay the same price as someone who's phone was subsidized?

    Basically, phones need to be unlinked from the carriers. It would allow a truer plan comparison. I'm not holding my breath on that though...

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Droid Forums
  10. Droid Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by TatDroid View Post
    What I find quite interesting is that everyone gets so upset about having to pay for tiered data, or having to pay a $30 "upgrade" fee - but no one is concerned about the HUGE amount we pay each month for "hardware subsidy" - whether or not there's anything being subsidized.

    It's no secret that when you sign a new 2 year agreement you can get a phone for a "subsidized" price which is several hundred dollars less than if you were to buy that same phone outright. We all then pay an extra amount each month (at least $10 - $15 per month, maybe more?) to offset that initial discount. We all know they're not actually GIVING us a $300 discount on that phone - Verizon is just loaning us the money up front, then we pay it back each month.

    But after our 20 month "subsidy" period is over (and especially after our 24 month contract is up) does our monthly service go down by $15/month? Why not? Or if I buy a phone somewhere else at retail and activate it with Verizon, why do I still have to pay a monthly hardware "subsidy"? Isn't Verizon making tons of extra money on all those people who are out of contract or who bought their phones outright?

    Verizon gives you two choices:

    1) lock yourself in to our services for another 2 years and we'll loan you money to buy a new phone. or,
    2) decide you don't want to be locked in, don't buy a new phone, and let Verizon make a HUGE profit margin on your monthly service.

    Verizon (and just about every other major carrier) win no matter which you choose.

    I just don't understand why people don't get more upset about THAT.
    Really they are giving you a discount on the device. You can pay full price for the phone if you like and have your same plan that costs the same $$$
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