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Thread: P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

  1. Master Droid
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    It's not about Tethering or Bandwidth. It's about content and apps.

    I've only read up to page 8 so forgive me if this is already been said but this is not about Bandwidth hogs or tethering.

    It's about controlling content. It's about making money from branded navigation apps and access to websites. They are locking down the phones so that you will be forced to view and pay for there content.

    It's not tethering but Net Neutrality issues that are driving this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Backnblack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    When you bought a car, it said in the warranty provisions, IN WRITING, that YOU SIGNED FOR WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE CAR... that you had to have all service done at an authorized GM dealer and had to use genuine GM parts.

    So the argument was the same, that "they knew when they signed the buyer's agreement", yada, yada, yada...

    And people went back after the fact, fought it, and a federal law was passed that is still in effect to this day.
    Apples and Oranges.... We are not talking about having the device fixed at a place other than a Moto Auth. Dealer. We are talking about using a service that you are not paying for.
    No we are not. We are talking about ROOTING. Some people that don't tether are trying to make the issue all about tethering so that they don't appear as guilty. These same people yapping about how we should respect the ToS because we signed it, have violated it themselves several times over by rooting and modifying their phones.

    The people championing VZW and their ToS, 99% of them are in violation of said ToS are are also clearly in the crosshairs if VZW implements these new policies.
    the difference is those 99% wont fight it, and you'll be crying "itz mai fone, i canz do whut i wantzs!" you've gotta record your convo with the vzw rep when you do this, it will be comedy gold.
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  3. Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin030908 View Post
    ... on the topic of bloatware... if VZW, and other carriers, it's not just VZW, want to keep loading the crap onto devices, IMO, the subsidized prices should be even lower. If I'm going to have to endure a device pre-loaded with tons of stuff I don't want or use, that will adversely affect performance of my device and I can't remove or at least 'hide' (.apk to .bak) the apps then drop the prices.

    If these 3rd party companies are paying carriers to pre-load onto devices then subsidize even further and load up on the bloatware! lol Go ahead and take 1/4 of my storage space and put bloat on there... but give me my phone for $.01!
    A Bionic for $.01?? Bloat it up!! haha
    Exactly!

    I know I won't feel as 'wronged' if I only pay a penny for my device. For that price I'll deal with the junk! lol
  4. Droid Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cynnar View Post
    See you jump on the tether again. I am talking about stealing. And stealing means you take the data without permission. You pay for permission to take the data.

    Stealing not tethering.

    And if you do tether you still have permission to access the data. Even though you may be in direct violation with the tos.

    You just cannot simply steal the data that you have permission to get.

    Do you get put in jail after you buy something and leave the store?

    If you the same product wrongly you might, but you didn't steal it.

    Sent from OG Droid powered by Pete's GPA
    His point is that you are paying for that "food" and the ToS says that you can only eat that "food" with chop sticks. If you eat it with a fork or spoon, then you are stealing because they charge extra for you to eat that same "food" with a different utensil.
    not these dumb analogies again. here's what i'm actually saying, try to keep up:

    "hey here's some food, if you use a fork we'll charge you"
    "oh really? that's cool no problem!!! i agree completely" (proceeds to use fork)
    "ok we're gonna have to charge you"
    "but but but...whaaaa whaaa"...whining ensues.
    If I have tethered more than 15mb of data in the past 7 months, that's a lot.

    Sue me.

    I don't care about tethering because I almost never do it.

    This isn't about tethering, but because tethering is probably the only part of the ToS that you have not personally violated, that's the only item you care about.

    Classic.
  5. Super Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlinecomputers View Post
    I've only read up to page 8 so forgive me if this is already been said but this is not about Bandwidth hogs or tethering.

    It's about controlling content. It's about making money from branded navigation apps and access to websites. They are locking down the phones so that you will be forced to view and pay for there content.

    It's not tethering but Net Neutrality issues that are driving this.
    Most of us are aware it's not solely a tethering issue (although it's certainly part of it)... but it's the topic that has everyone fired up for some reason.

    Myself and others have been saying there is much more to this than just tethering and root. As I mentioned, people have been saying for a long time that we (the 'rooting/hacking' community) are a small base of customers across all carriers. There obviously has to be more to it
  6. Droid Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Diab210 View Post

    Czerdrill hits it on the head. It doesn't matter if you personally feel tethering is right or wrong - it's against your agreement with Verizon (or any other carrier for that matter). You lose.

    Removing the bloatware probably goes against a contract signed somewhere too. If you're phone comes with it stock theres probably a reason for it and its probably money. X company pays verizon to preload their app on the new android phone. X company is paying for Verizon's service to promote whatever that app may be. If you rip it off your system X company wasted money and is probably yelling at Verizon for allowing you to remove it one way or another.

    Does it suck? Yep. A lot actually. Is there anything I can do about it? Kiss my overclocked and themed phone good-bye.
    That was my point. The guys who don't tether want to make it all about tethering because in their minds it absolves them of their part in this.

    Which says that you cannot root, remove the pre-installed software that VZW was contractually obligated to put on there, modify the phone from their intended parameters, etc...

    I am betting that every goober making this all about tethering, is arguing from a rooted phone, that has bloat removed in violation of the ToS they keep pointing to, etc...

    That's what makes this so laughable. While they point the finger at a (gasp!) tetherer, they don't realize that there is just as big of a bullseye on their backs because they rooted and modified their phone. LOL
    again...keep up. i tether occasionally, i am definitely rooted, i run custom roms, i overclock, i build my own crappy roms and flash them to my phone on my own time. not sure why you think that i don't do any of these things, or why you think that i think i am immune from some kind of consequence if vzw decides to enforce this...you're arguing for the sake of arguing, and you're doing a horrible job.
    So you are as guilty as anyone, by your own admission. This ToS you keep holding up, telling us how we signed it and should abide by it, you yourself have wiped your butt with it.

    Pot, meet kettle.
  7. Droid Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post

    His point is that you are paying for that "food" and the ToS says that you can only eat that "food" with chop sticks. If you eat it with a fork or spoon, then you are stealing because they charge extra for you to eat that same "food" with a different utensil.
    not these dumb analogies again. here's what i'm actually saying, try to keep up:

    "hey here's some food, if you use a fork we'll charge you"
    "oh really? that's cool no problem!!! i agree completely" (proceeds to use fork)
    "ok we're gonna have to charge you"
    "but but but...whaaaa whaaa"...whining ensues.
    If I have tethered more than 15mb of data in the past 7 months, that's a lot.

    Sue me.

    I don't care about tethering because I almost never do it.

    This isn't about tethering, but because tethering is probably the only part of the ToS that you have not personally violated, that's the only item you care about.

    Classic.
    You've really, really gotta catch up on the thread before you start commenting man. I tether. I have tethered, and if I need to tether again I most probably will. Why are you unable to comprehend that? What I won't do is cry when they catch me and try to justify violating my contract. Geez...
    Last edited by hookbill; 04-05-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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  8. Master Droid
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    This article pretty much sums up my thoughts on this matter now. I think we all need to take a step back and wait to see some proof before we all decide to unroot etc... I know what these guys are doing is giving their opinion buy it sounds quite logical to me. I was already kind of thinking this way myself. I'm in no way saying I don't believe P3, but I like to go off the facts and from what I see, they're just not there at this point.

    One thing is for sure...I definitely hope P3 is either wrong, or VZW realizes it's just not worth it to declare war on the root community.

    One last thought, aren't most developers of our favorite apps root users? What is android without the apps? I'm trying to teach myself Java for the purpose of becoming an app developer. I would be kind of pi$$ed off if I couldn't root my phone. I think many of these developers would think the same way. I get that they are saying to get a Nexus device, but news flash...VZW has NO Nexus devices!

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  9. Droid Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post

    That was my point. The guys who don't tether want to make it all about tethering because in their minds it absolves them of their part in this.

    Which says that you cannot root, remove the pre-installed software that VZW was contractually obligated to put on there, modify the phone from their intended parameters, etc...

    I am betting that every goober making this all about tethering, is arguing from a rooted phone, that has bloat removed in violation of the ToS they keep pointing to, etc...

    That's what makes this so laughable. While they point the finger at a (gasp!) tetherer, they don't realize that there is just as big of a bullseye on their backs because they rooted and modified their phone. LOL
    again...keep up. i tether occasionally, i am definitely rooted, i run custom roms, i overclock, i build my own crappy roms and flash them to my phone on my own time. not sure why you think that i don't do any of these things, or why you think that i think i am immune from some kind of consequence if vzw decides to enforce this...you're arguing for the sake of arguing, and you're doing a horrible job.
    So you are as guilty as anyone, by your own admission. This ToS you keep holding up, telling us how we signed it and should abide by it, you yourself have wiped your butt with it.

    Pot, meet kettle.
    seriously can you stop for a moment and read the thread? your posts are just nonsensical rants now. I've said so many times that i think what they're doing is wrong, that we shouldnt have to pay for tethering, and that data is data. I also said (and this is the point you keep missing in your ranting) that if they tell me i'm wrong i'm not going to cry about it like you would. I didn't suddenly become the pot or kettle because you suddenly decided to read that I tether. I've been rooted since the first month I've had my phone. The difference is I'm not trying to make up buffet analogies about why I have a right to root or tether. You are. And you're doing a horrible job at it.
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  10. Droid Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post

    not these dumb analogies again. here's what i'm actually saying, try to keep up:

    "hey here's some food, if you use a fork we'll charge you"
    "oh really? that's cool no problem!!! i agree completely" (proceeds to use fork)
    "ok we're gonna have to charge you"
    "but but but...whaaaa whaaa"...whining ensues.
    If I have tethered more than 15mb of data in the past 7 months, that's a lot.

    Sue me.

    I don't care about tethering because I almost never do it.

    This isn't about tethering, but because tethering is probably the only part of the ToS that you have not personally violated, that's the only item you care about.

    Classic.
    You've really, really gotta catch up on the thread before you start commenting man. You're irrelevance is reaching new heights. I tether. I have tethered, and if I need to tether again I most probably will. Why are you unable to comprehend that? What I won't do is cry when they catch me and try to justify violating my contract. Geez...
    I won't cry either, I would go to Sprint and get a true unlimited plan for less money and call it a day.

    But I will say for the 14th time(try to keep up), this isn't about tethering. If tethering was the real problem, because it was soaking up so much bandwidth and slowing down the network, then they would simply throttle or cut off those users that were using so much data on a monthly basis.

    As has also been pointed out, people were tethering with unrooted phones, with apps readily available(still are today) from the Market.

    If this was really about tethering, they could pull the apps from the Market and flip a switch to block or throttle the people using up all the bandwidth. No major campaign need be launched, no investments in hardware, no new strategies, no alliances with manufacturers, etc...

    They could easily address this problem today, with the existing systems in place, with ease.

    And they would do that, if tethering was actually the issue.

    What is clear is that it is not. It's bigger than that, and will effect everyone that is rooted, whether they ever tethered or not.

    I think that tethering is one of the excuses being given for what they want to do, I don't think it is really the problem, else they would have already addressed it with a cap or throttling or simply kicking anyone using mad amounts of data off of the network. You don't need a bootloader encrypted, or a new CPU, or OTA practices, etc...

    They know how much data every single phone uses on their network. If you go over a limit, say 10GB, you get a notice in the mail that if it happens again you will be cut off. You do it again, your phone gets kicked off the data service and you get to call in and plead your case and see if your usage was legit or not.

    Problem solved, without any more investment in hardware or systems or any of that crap, and it leaves those of us that do not abuse the system, and may not even tether at all, free to enjoy our phones and happily pay our monthly bill. They make money, we stay happy, everyone wins.

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