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Thread: P3Droid: Some Food for Thought - Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers

  1. Droid Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSwaggeR View Post
    It really peeves me that people like czerdrill and hookbill and others go against the argument of others and basically imply "well Verizon and Google are 100% right, we should abide by everything they say and pass on the word that rooting is wrong, customizing your phone is wrong, this and that is wrong and it's in the ToS!"

    Kind of stupid you're implying that when the lot of you were and have been doing the exact same thing the rest of us have been doing for awhile. Which includes rooting, any form of customizing, and stuff to improve our phone or battery life. You're on a forum that is and was built for hackers, improvisors, tips and tricks from others, and many other people in those categories. Heck, even the rescue squad relies in areas to, by ways of rooting and other stuff, rescue people's phone.

    Maybe you guys should go to another forum? Maybe you should reside at the VZW's forum site and jump on their bandwagon and praise their ToS?

    We don't support those who cheat and steal data. We do understand the reason WHY some do it (price and cap). We don't support pirating. We've supported many different devs, and I'll bet my bottom dollar you've paid for such apps, simple donation, or anything else that goes against Verizon's ToS verbally.

    You guys want to say more, then you know where VZW's site is. I'm gonna stay rooted and continue customizing my phone as I see fit. If they wish to do anything to my service, where it is no longer working correctly, then I will be more than happy to take both of our phones and personally shove it up VZW's where the sun don't shine. And then I will see them in court!
    again, your emotional arguments are irrelevant. i think is completely sucks that they might attempt to block rooting, i think its highway robbery that you have to pay $20 for tethering, i also think paying $30/month for unlimited data sucks for me because i'm on wifi 99% of the time, and can't wait for tiered plans. but i'm not going to get all emotional about it, like you and others do, because i agreed to the terms.

    you're mixing up legality with what you think is right. you're getting emotional about the subject because you think its wrong. but yet you agreed to it. that's why you guys end up looking foolish. because you'll swear up and down how evil verizon is, and then a month later you'll start a thread called "anyone root the (insert newly released phone name here)??!!!"

    if you truly believe that you're being ripped off then leave verizon. they can't force you to stay with them. but if you do stay with them, you have to abide by their rules. if you disagree with their rules, then take it to court and try to win, instead of making threads threatening to take them to court.

    yes i root, yes i've tethered on very rare occasions. the difference between you and me is if verizon comes to me and says "we need you to pay for the 1KB of tethering you did" i'd pay it. if they said "we need you to pay for the 0.5KB of tethering you did" i'd pay it. because i agreed not to tether in the agreement i signed, and they are simply enforcing what was agreed to.

    leave verizon, sue them, bring it to the steps of the supreme court. just stop crying about it here. you will most probably not win if you take it to court, you absolutely will not win if you take it to droidforums.net.
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  2. Droid Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by pc747 View Post
    You cant blame tethering just on root users. I was tethering through easy root and pdanet long before I was rooted. In fact I tether less because wifi tethering is bad on battery life, and because I can oc my phone is a little faster. The primary reason is because of people sending in bricked devices. No one want to say, I damaged my phone I need to you my insurance here is 50 bucks. They rather say "my phone locked up".
    well yeah i'm sure there are people out there tethering without rooting, but i think its a safe bet that most people who tether are also rooted. i can't imagine that the majority of tether-ers are unrooted...
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  3. Droid Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by Its TwiX View Post
    Some of you are really stubborn. Why do you think they have a ToS you sign for data usage? Have any of you saying "whatever whatever I do what I want" actually read any of the forms you signed for your phone? It's quite comical... Sure you're not going to get sued for tethering or rooting but they can deny you of service whenever the hell they want if you violate your contract. And if you take them to court for denying you of service you will probably get laughed at. They have you sign a contract for a reason.

    And to those of you blindly following this article, I feel bad for you.

    P3droid said the sky is falling tomorrow. Start praying!

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    Why do they have that fine print in the ToS? To prevent people from sucking up 30GB a month.

    Tethering has nothing to do with that.

    You can spout about how if the ToS says that you cannot wipe your butt with your left hand, that we must abide by it, and I have pointed out where other companies tried that and lost.

    When you bought a car, it said in the warranty provisions, IN WRITING, that YOU SIGNED FOR WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE CAR... that you had to have all service done at an authorized GM dealer and had to use genuine GM parts.

    So the argument was the same, that "they knew when they signed the buyer's agreement", yada, yada, yada...

    And people went back after the fact, fought it, and a federal law was passed that is still in effect to this day.

    So yes, it may say that, and they can put whatever they want in there, and we as consumers have the right to complain, and if they continue to tighten the screws, some lawyer will want his 15 minutes of fame and will start a class action suit and the courts will get to decide if these practices are fair to the consumer or not.

    It's happened before, and it is happening now, and the precendent has often sided with the consumers. Phone companies, cable providers, auto makers, Apple, and now VZW...

    Time will tell which of us was right and which were wrong, but I think that history will repeat itself, again. Just my opinion...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquireSCA View Post
    When you bought a car, it said in the warranty provisions, IN WRITING, that YOU SIGNED FOR WHEN YOU BOUGHT THE CAR... that you had to have all service done at an authorized GM dealer and had to use genuine GM parts.

    So the argument was the same, that "they knew when they signed the buyer's agreement", yada, yada, yada...

    And people went back after the fact, fought it, and a federal law was passed that is still in effect to this day.
    Apples and Oranges.... We are not talking about having the device fixed at a place other than a Moto Auth. Dealer. We are talking about using a service that you are not paying for.
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  5. Master Droid
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSwaggeR View Post
    It really peeves me that people like czerdrill and hookbill and others go against the argument of others and basically imply "well Verizon and Google are 100% right, we should abide by everything they say and pass on the word that rooting is wrong, customizing your phone is wrong, this and that is wrong and it's in the ToS!"

    Kind of stupid you're implying that when the lot of you were and have been doing the exact same thing the rest of us have been doing for awhile. Which includes rooting, any form of customizing, and stuff to improve our phone or battery life. You're on a forum that is and was built for hackers, improvisors, tips and tricks from others, and many other people in those categories. Heck, even the rescue squad relies in areas to, by ways of rooting and other stuff, rescue people's phone.

    Maybe you guys should go to another forum? Maybe you should reside at the VZW's forum site and jump on their bandwagon and praise their ToS?

    We don't support those who cheat and steal data. We do understand the reason WHY some do it (price and cap). We don't support pirating. We've supported many different devs, and I'll bet my bottom dollar you've paid for such apps, simple donation, or anything else that goes against Verizon's ToS verbally.

    You guys want to say more, then you know where VZW's site is. I'm gonna stay rooted and continue customizing my phone as I see fit. If they wish to do anything to my service, where it is no longer working correctly, then I will be more than happy to take both of our phones and personally shove it up VZW's where the sun don't shine. And then I will see them in court!
    Great post. I have spent about an hour reading this thread and out of all the arguments i agree with yours the most

    Sent from my Droid using DroidForums
  6. Master Droid
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    There is no emotion in my fingers, voice, or head. What I support is what I support that is justified as ok and right. No you won't get my support for your piracy and tethering abuse. But you dam sure will get my support for rooting, customizing and other areas as long as you don't abuse it and lie about it.

    My points are relevant. If you want me to go even further in-depth to justify my reasons then I will gladly type up a huge report and pick and pull out every ToS, put our perspective against it and show what is supported, not supported, or does not mention any clarification or association in any category for that area.

    There is no mix-up in the sense of legality because I mention nothing about supporting or using anything that is pirating or stealing or anything for that matter. You can drop that issue.

    If I feel ripped off, I'm not going to walk away hurt. I'm going to step my big-a$$ foot down and speak my mind. I don't just up and quit. There are plenty of other people who feel there are just too much strictness on these phones. If we paid for the phone, we can do whatever we wish (again as long as it isn't against pirating and such). It IS our phone. This isn't a car company, bud. This isn't a lease. We bought the phone, we are entitled to do what we please to it because when paid for it is 100% ours. Not 99%. Not 50%. But 100%. You keep thinking in terms of leases and such. There is a difference between Our phone being ours and services. Configuration of the phone, which is in ToS by the way, simply means anything that alters the SERVICES (which has NOTHING to do with themes and such). You root, you brick, you take back, that's a voided warranty but not a cancellation on your service.

    I think your points are irrelevant. And like I said, VZW's site is just a click away. I'm sure they could use another member to excite with news about nothing more than a new make and model coming out.

    I can go on and on. You pick.
    Funny how some people complain more than my 2 year old daughter does.
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    VZW should just do away with their 'unlimited' claim for data. Put caps and allow tethering. Just charge for overages.

    I understand that tethering is against the TOS, that tethering takes more bandwidth... but bottom line is it's only data. Data which is supposed to be unlimited, so it really shouldn't matter how the data is used... the tethering fee is just another way for VZW to gouge customers for something they've already paid for. I understand it's considered an additional feature... but it's a scam IMO. I don't think it's right at all that VZW charges for tethering data when data is supposed to be unlimited... but 'tethering' is in the TOS and unfortunately that means VZW wins the argument. Not fair by any means, but it is what it is.

    ... and tethering is the hot topic here, but it's not the sole purpose behind these crackdowns.
  8. Team B-boy™/Jedi Counsel
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    I actually have enjoyed reading all the posts in here.. a lot of great points are made, as well as a lot of complaining, too. Some of the analogies are very thought out and make perfect sense... I don't even tether, never needed to.. I only rooted for customization caue I hated the white statusbar... So after reading this thread, I agree with both sides.. the ones that tether and use >5mb or whatever have a valid point IMO because a lot of us signed a TOS before tethering was out there.. I don't know all the legalities or the 7 syllable words like some of you but I analyze things and I honestly don't think there is anything to worry about.. didn't eveyone freak out at Y2K?... One of my friends moved to Colorado, in the middle of nowhere, with a whole lot of rice and canned food and barrels of gas and a generator... So although I don't have a 100% thorough back-knowledge into all the details of this issue, I sure haven't had VZ contact me for any reason nor have I read any definites on it.. P3 probably has some pretty good facts or trustworthy people telling him this stuff, but that doesn't mean it's set in stone or has even been started...plus, VZ and all others involved aren't stupid, they'll more than likely create a solution that everyone benefits from... Like I said already, I don't have all the info like a lot of you, so don't "quote" me and tell me how stupid I am... lol.. I just know that we all have our own tidbits of knowledge to some degree and a lot of good info has been shared... thanks to everyone for giving me some good reading material while I'm in the bathroom..




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  9. Droid Sensei
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSwaggeR View Post
    There is no emotion in my fingers, voice, or head. What I support is what I support that is justified as ok and right. No you won't get my support for your piracy and tethering abuse. But you dam sure will get my support for rooting, customizing and other areas as long as you don't abuse it and lie about it.

    My points are relevant. If you want me to go even further in-depth to justify my reasons then I will gladly type up a huge report and pick and pull out every ToS, put our perspective against it and show what is supported, not supported, or does not mention any clarification or association in any category for that area.

    There is no mix-up in the sense of legality because I mention nothing about supporting or using anything that is pirating or stealing or anything for that matter. You can drop that issue.

    If I feel ripped off, I'm not going to walk away hurt. I'm going to step my big-a$$ foot down and speak my mind. I don't just up and quit. There are plenty of other people who feel there are just too much strictness on these phones. If we paid for the phone, we can do whatever we wish (again as long as it isn't against pirating and such). It IS our phone. This isn't a car company, bud. This isn't a lease. We bought the phone, we are entitled to do what we please to it because when paid for it is 100% ours. Not 99%. Not 50%. But 100%. You keep thinking in terms of leases and such. There is a difference between Our phone being ours and services. Configuration of the phone, which is in ToS by the way, simply means anything that alters the SERVICES (which has NOTHING to do with themes and such). You root, you brick, you take back, that's a voided warranty but not a cancellation on your service.

    I think your points are irrelevant. And like I said, VZW's site is just a click away. I'm sure they could use another member to excite with news about nothing more than a new make and model coming out.

    I can go on and on. You pick.
    so...do you feel ripped off or not? if so, why are you here? i would love to hear the status of the lawsuit you've opened. can you provide the docket number and state you filed it in?

    if you don't feel ripped off...again...why are you here?
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  10. Droid Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 52brandon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by czerdrill View Post

    you two are missing the obvious point, as is every other "freedom fighter" here. you two may not be tethering, but the fact of the matter is many rooters are. and that's why rooters are being targeted. if anyone here believes vzw is doing this to go after rooters who put a theme on their phone, they're very naive and have the "corporations are evil and out to get me" childish mentality. it's simply not the case. verizon is going after rooters because rooters are the ones who tether the most. and tethering is stealing a service from them.

    to the person who said "if we don't matter why are these measures being taken"? again...because rooters are stealing a service. that doesn't mean that 5 people boycotting verizon is going to affect them. but no company is going to put up with even 1 person stealing a service from them. it doesn't mean vzw is shaking in their boots wondering what to do when the 30-something people who actually will boycott, do. we all know everyone here swearing up and down that "i'm leaving verizon!" and "if this happens, i'm canceling everything verizon i own and burning my verizon visor" or "i'm done with verizon, this is unfair, i'm going to sue if they do this" isn't going to do a thing. it's all talk, and verizon knows that. put your money where your mouth is, or obey the contract that you signed. you are not in control, vzw is, and that's just what it is. the only options are to accept that, or do something about it.

    since we all know no one here is going to do anything about it, i fail to see why threads like this come up all the time.
    if tethering is the "obvious point", why not remove the apps from the market? Seems like an obvious solution... but they don't, they lock bootloaders, and push OTA updates to detect rooting, not tethering...
    if they are really doing this, which no one has any proof of except some article by p3droid with no sources except people who are "afraid of losing their job", i'm sure the tethering apps will be removed.

    so you're really thinking that verizon is taking these measures to stop someone from removing bloatware? or theming? or overclocking? bloatware that the people who root, would never use regardless? what would be the point of undertaking something like this to prevent the removal of bloatware?

    secondly, its not like you cant sideload a tethering app...removing it from the market is not going to stop someone who is saavy enough to tether in the first place would it? if you find out that pdanet is no longer available on the market, will you put on the sackcloth and say "woe is me" and beat your chest, or would you simply go here: android-wifi-tether - Wireless Tether for Root Users - Google Project Hosting
    How long have you worked for VZW?

    Nobody cheerleads for a corporation who does not have some sort of skin in the game...

    We all pay for unlimited internet, we therefore cannot be stealing what we paid for.

    90% of my internet use on my DX, is over my Wifi. So I would like them to reimburse Comcast for that.
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