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Thread: Response from the FSF and a possible alternative legal recourse

  1. livingXsacrifice's Avatar
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    #11
    I don't know about much regluations and stuff but isn't the bottom line that when you buy the phone it is yours? Why does a company feel they still have control over the device you bought? If you break into YOUR phone and mess with the open os on YOUR phone why should they care if you want to take the chance to mess YOUR phone up or make it better. Why should anyone worry about ramifications of a company suing you? I don't understand this logic. Maybe some of you can enlighten me.
  2. livingXsacrifice's Avatar
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mkraffert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by USCChem View Post
    Okay, maybe I'm not following the logic... this is what I understand:
    -Hackers figured out how to install their own OSes on the TI-83.
    -TI files a lawsuit alleging that they violated the DMCA.
    -Court rules in favor of the hackers on the basis that TI made no attempt to block custom OSes on the device, and in fact even provided alternative OSes themselves.

    But I don't see how this says that Motorola legally cannot block custom OSes from being installed. From what I understand, it only says that if you figure out how to do it, it isn't a DMCA violation.

    I mean, it sucks and all, but I'm pretty sure what Motorola is doing is perfectly legal. In fact, if I can draw anything from this, it would be that Motorola *would* be able to take legal action against you for hacking the DroidX because they, unlike TI, intentionally encrypted their bootloader in order to prevent you from doing so, and they, unlike TI, did *not* provide you with custom OSes. Now, I'm sure Motorola wouldn't bother* pursuing legal action, I'm just pointing out that, unless I misunderstood or overlooked something, this ruling isn't really relevant to these circumstances and actually works better as a "backfire" on you.

    *Although, in the event that the encrypted bootloader is cracked and there is also a legal case being taken against Motorola, they would probably file a countersuit. And they would probably win. So you may want to be sure you have a solid case before legally provoking them.
    It seems to me that based on this last paragraph, Apple would have a case against all the iPhone jailbreakers. Jobs is such a control freak if he could go after them he would. Since he hasn't there must be something we're missing. Jobs wouldn't let the chance for a pointless lawsuit go by unfiled. Not if he thought there was ANY chance of winning it.

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
    Maybe he was a hacker at one time and remembers the old days? IDK
  3. Droid Ninja
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by USCChem View Post
    On second thought, I guess the stuff TI had on its operating systems are basically the same as Motorola's, so Motorola wouldn't have a case (if that precedent were followed). But still, this doesn't say that TI was not permitted to required a digital signing key, only that they couldn't take legal action against someone for reverse-engineering the key.

    And I don't see why they would bother getting into legal action with iPhone jailbreakers unless you're just basing that on the "Apple is the root of all that is evil and nefarious" mentality some people seem to have. I was also under the impression that jailbreaking was rooting an iPhone, which I believe is related to, but not the same as flashing a custom OS to it.

    Anyway, back on topic, I'm also pretty sure the Android licensing and stuff is irrelevant here, since it all comes down to Motorola's bootloader, which isn't really part of Android.
    That's exactly the precedent I am looking into with the EFF. Motorola doesn't have to NOT sign or encrypt the bootloader but in the same sentence because the OS that is running on it is freely available puts them in some murky waters. Haven't heard anything back from the EFF yet except the initial response saying that they have received my email and are looking into it. If anything noteworthy comes out of it I will be sure to update everyone.
    OG Droid w/ Pete's GPA16 w/ stock Kernel using auto OC script. (retired)

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    It's OK for your Droid to be different. Just be supportive and reassuring and it will do just fine. It's when you or other people point at it or mock it for being different is when its' feelings get hurt. Just show it unconditional love regardless of its' differences and it will in turn reciprocate that love and loyalty.
  4. Master Droid
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    #14
    FWIW, although I'm' for openness and have a rooted/custom rom droid, consider this side of the story and the possible ramifications to Motorola

    Motorola instead leaves the bootloader open, someone, maybe a Verizon employee, loads a custom rom with hidden, built in data capturing that they sell to an unsuspecting purchaser. the purchaser uses the phone not knowing that someone else has full access to the phone and everything the person does with the phone. Does motorola have legal liability for not taking every precaution to prevent unauthorized tampering with the phone? I don't know, but my guess is there is more to Motorola's reasoning than just keeping hackers out. And the analogy to the calculator...does this calculator capture personal data and have the ability to send data wirelessly? If not, I suspect you've got 2 different animals, regardless of the similarities.
    Droid X SSX1.1 (me)
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  5. Super Moderator
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    #15
    This is going to be such a gray area that if this ever made it to any sort of court, the winner would be the side with the best representation, not the side that's "right".
    "...life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it."

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  6. Master Droid
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jntowers View Post
    This is going to be such a gray area that if this ever made it to any sort of court, the winner would be the side with the best representation, not the side that's "right".
    best representation and the most money.

    also consider the possible military useage of these phones, just read another thread pointing to this article:
    Smartphones could be latest battle accessory - Yahoo! News
    i think military would want big-time encryption, and google/android/motorola are already working with the military on developing something if you believe the article...another argument they have for secure platforms.
    Droid X SSX1.1 (me)
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  7. Droid Ninja
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mcsinfl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jntowers View Post
    This is going to be such a gray area that if this ever made it to any sort of court, the winner would be the side with the best representation, not the side that's "right".
    best representation and the most money.

    also consider the possible military useage of these phones, just read another thread pointing to this article:
    Smartphones could be latest battle accessory - Yahoo! News
    i think military would want big-time encryption, and google/android/motorola are already working with the military on developing something if you believe the article...another argument they have for secure platforms.
    Encrypting the wireless traffic yeah but the bootloader, no. Sorry I have a problem with paying for something and then not owning it. Your scenario however unlikely is plausible. That being said who is to say that there isn't something like that going on right now using motoblur and moto profiling and scanning messages for targetted ads and promotions? Again there is no way of knowing. Point is if I could do with it as I please I can ensure that ONLY what I want is on the phone. Custom ROM, custom AOSP kernel and whatever apps to follow. Not the ones that some corporation deems "approved".
    OG Droid w/ Pete's GPA16 w/ stock Kernel using auto OC script. (retired)

    LG G2X w/ rooted 2.3.3 leak.

    It's OK for your Droid to be different. Just be supportive and reassuring and it will do just fine. It's when you or other people point at it or mock it for being different is when its' feelings get hurt. Just show it unconditional love regardless of its' differences and it will in turn reciprocate that love and loyalty.
  8. Master Droid
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    #18
    trust me DS, I agree, just playing devils advocate
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  9. Super Moderator
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    #19
    ditto! 10...
    "...life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it."

    Guidelines of Conduct
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  10. Droid Sensei
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LexusBrian400 View Post
    People hack calculators? WTF
    People hack everything. A calculator like the TI-83 doesn't seem like it should be surprising to me (unless you're not familiar with it).
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